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Posted: Aug 19 2010 09:01 pm

There needs to be a low cost playable artifact with shroud or indestructible that makes Prophylactic Lich playable. If it's the mox, awesome.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 19 2010 09:05 pm

Ashnod's Transmogrant would be pretty awesome to see back, if they feel like doing reprints.

Title: Comic Author Joined: Dec 12 2008 Posts: 1179

lordsathien wrote:

Sounds really nice, but if you want to get rid of poison, Giant Fan and Leeches come to mind.

This is just a guess, but I have a slight feeling that since they're printing new cards with the poison mechanic, they'll also print new cards to deal with poison counters, and not make folks rely on 15 year old cards or travel to silver-bordered land to deal with them. Wink

Posted: Aug 20 2010 03:53 am

aeonic wrote:

Which'll be a shame, because the Wither mechanic was neat on it's own. Poison, eh, there's a reason that it hasn't been around for a while and really, if you're going for the Poison kill, you'd better go big or go the fuck home.

Last time poison was printed, about 4 years ago, it was one of the top decks in block, and very playable in standard.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 07:40 am

Been awhile, but I'm pretty sure Giant Fan can't get rid of poison counters. IIRC, it can only move counters from one permanent to another.

Leeches was so bad. If poison was a replacement effect for damage, fine. But it's not. There were very few scenarios where Leeches would save you from death instead of expediating death.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 01:10 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

Been awhile, but I'm pretty sure Giant Fan can't get rid of poison counters. IIRC, it can only move counters from one permanent to another.

Leeches was so bad. If poison was a replacement effect for damage, fine. But it's not. There were very few scenarios where Leeches would save you from death instead of expediating death.

Guess what? Now poison IS a replacement effect for damage! Maro addressed everything on Twitter, and I love this ability. Poison creatures no longer kill them with damage before killing them with poison, and because all the damage is done as poison counters, you now have to fear a 1/1 poison creature BEFORE you get to 9 poison counters, or else they could giant growth you out of the game with poison counters.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 01:15 pm

Was there any mention of how poison counters will affect planeswalkers? Or was that done previously?

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 20 2010 01:34 pm

aeonic wrote:

Was there any mention of how poison counters will affect planeswalkers? Or was that done previously?

They don't. My guess is, these creatures will do damage normally to Planeswalkers.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 03:27 pm

Correct. The creatures do normal damage to planeswalkers.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 03:52 pm

Are all the old poison creatures going to have errata? Or are they just going to be so bad by comparison that we forget about them? Either way, love the new rules regarding poison.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 07:08 pm

Old cards will not be errata'ed in any way; they are what they are. But yeah, the new rules address how to make creatures poisonous perfectly, but flavourfully, rules wise, and from a competitive standpoint.

As for them all being overcosted and thusly unplayable as you had suggested, my bet is that they'll be costed similar to double strike creatures, as both double strike and poison effectively set your opponent's life total at 10. That means that yeah, commons will probably be a little expensive, but there'll still be the Boros Swiftblades of the world. It will also be more pervasive than double strike, which means there's more opportunity for them to make competitive cards.

Posted: Aug 20 2010 08:18 pm

Since most of the things that deal with counters say target "Permanent", is there anyway to deal with poison counters since they are on the player, and not a permanent?

Like, for instance, you couldn't just sack a Hexmage to wipe out all the poison counters you have.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 20 2010 08:34 pm

Knyte wrote:

Since most of the things that deal with counters say target "Permanent", is there anyway to deal with poison counters since they are on the player, and not a permanent?

Like, for instance, you couldn't just sack a Hexmage to wipe out all the poison counters you have.

Player's aren't permanents (if they were, Vindicate would be the most powerful card in the game).

The only current way to get rid of poison counters is this very old card.

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

That's what he just said Usa. Brutal card btw... Hopefully they'll be better options in new set.

Posted: Aug 21 2010 02:29 am

Consideirng Maro said he HATES Leeches and he very, very, very much wants people to die to poison, I don't know that we'll have a way to get rid of poison. If there is, it's going to have to be much weaker than Leeches, in that it can't drop all of them.

Posted: Aug 21 2010 07:35 am

The irony is that Leeches would actually finally be playable under the new poison rules.

Leeches highlights a problem that was prevalent in the sets of the time: flavor took precedent over playability in card design. And in no set was this a bigger problem than Homelands.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 21 2010 09:53 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

The irony is that Leeches would actually finally be playable under the new poison rules.

Leeches highlights a problem that was prevalent in the sets of the time: flavor took precedent over playability in card design. And in no set was this a bigger problem than Homelands.

Fernin and I still need to finish tweaking our Revised Homelands cards. I think our revised Leeches might be too strong now. We'll see what variations they cook up for it.

And no, I don't think Leeches would be playable under the new poison rules. It's either a clunky way to finish someone off, or just makes the poison counters half as effective (assuming 1 poison = 2 life).

Posted: Aug 21 2010 10:40 am

Um, are you dumb? Under the new poison rules, poison creatures can't assign physical damage to a player, only poison counters. So if you're running a poison deck, your opponent will still be at 20 when you throw that 9th poison counter on them. So they play Leeches and trade 9 counters for 9 life. Since you can't win with damage, the 9 damage they took is meaningless.

And here's what Leeches should have been:

2W
Instant
Remove all poison counters from target player

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

So harsh, Syd, comb your hair and take a break turning into Jeebus.

EFff it syd do poison counters and side deck burn bitches... That way when they side board in there bull shit Leeches to get rid of the poison, you just burn their gay ass to finish them off.

Sounds like Maro is going to make poison OP as shit.

Posted: Aug 21 2010 01:16 pm

I'm at work! I'm cranky!

Posted: Aug 21 2010 02:03 pm

Okay, forgive me if this is a stupid question because most of the time that I played magic actively, -/- counters weren't a problem. If I'm running a Phylactery (you know, the things Jewish kids wear) Lich and I've got it anchored to an artifact and I block a Wither/Infest creature, could it theoretically be reduced to a 0/0 creature or less but not be destroyed due to it's indestructability?

Posted: Aug 21 2010 05:17 pm

No, it dies. Indestructibility presents a creature from being destroyed. There are two ways a creature can be destroyed:

1) By taking lethal damage
2) Any effect that specifically says it destroys it

If a creature becomes 0/0, it dies as a state-based effect. Alternatively, RFG effects also get rid of indestructible guys.

Posted: Aug 22 2010 03:57 am

Hey, you said state based effect! You've actually been listening to my judge rulings!

Posted: Aug 22 2010 07:45 am

I do try to pay attention.

I just don't always know what "reanimate the Leviathan" means!

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 22 2010 09:32 am

Quote:

Hey, you said state based effect! You've actually been listening to my judge rulings!

Aren't they "state-based actions" now?

Quote:

I just don't always know what "reanimate the Leviathan" means!

I think that involves a little blue pill.