SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic

Posted: Jul 06 2010 12:43 am

We played that this weekend. I bought the Black deck, and one of the other players bought the Green deck. We each won with Archenemy decks.

We were pretty impressed with them. A lot of fun.

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

Well they would still consistently beat you knyte. You just got what you needed.

And if you're really worried then you could run 2 red and a counter everything blue. With mana leaks, and repeals... do what you want and have fun. You'll win 1 in 5000 Razz

.

P.S. I sent Fern a PM but have to go to class right but ya... i'll do a 3v1 on Jeebus, and he we'll let him see all our decks beforehand. Anyway I think a 2v2 will be more exciting, if we can convince the Dr.

Posted: Jul 06 2010 11:31 am

Can we do Archenemy, Vanguard, and Planechase all at the same time?

Title: Comic Author Joined: Dec 12 2008 Posts: 1179

I'm all for the 2v2 myself, Jeebus has nothing to prove here, we know he can build good decks. I just updated OCTGN recently and it told me that I had to reinstall my game definition and all the sets, which made me cry and not open the program for another week... Seriously, that's a lot of friggin' sets to reinstall! ><

Today, in finally getting around to reinstalling stuff, I found out that they're still working on upgrading all the sets to work with the new version, and only have as far back as Mirrodin compatible with it. So, it certainly seems that we can't go farther back than Extended, even if we wanted to. I'm fine with Extended being the cutoff, Mirrodin is when I re-joined the game, so most of my cards are from Mirrodin to Lorwyn.

Posted: Jul 06 2010 12:11 pm

I'm not playing a game on a team with Snow, plain and simple. As for 3 burn decks coming at me, I'll just Paris down until I get the white leyline in my hand so I can win the game on turn 0.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jul 06 2010 12:34 pm

We need to play EDH Emperor Star Planechase Archenemy!

Joined: Jun 10 2008 Posts: 172

Im curious how you would view the Urza's set in regards to power creep. Was it too much too soon? Or did Wizards sort of break too many rules at once and it created just vastly overpowered cards.

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

Quote:

I'm not playing a game on a team with Snow, plain and simple.

mmMmm memories. Anyway, I thought i'd be a handicap, and we all know how you like challenges. How can me being on your team be any more of a challenge, to prove your ultimate greatness?

Fine, i didn't want it to end up this way but we can do bros vs Pros. Jeebus and Syd verse Snow and Fern. Note! Fern if we win, I still get your soul, and if we lose it's because you sabotaged us Very Happy

.

(The only team that makes sense at this point is me and syd Embarrassed

, and Jeebus and Fern Twisted Evil

)

Alright well, Fern i'm giong to download your program OCTGN over visisting Syd's gynecologist (OBYGN),

Posted: Jul 06 2010 03:23 pm

APLETHORAOFPINATAS wrote:

Im curious how you would view the Urza's set in regards to power creep. Was it too much too soon? Or did Wizards sort of break too many rules at once and it created just vastly overpowered cards.

Urza Block was definitely part of a power creep. Unfortunately, WOTC didn't realize just how powerful some of the cards they had designed were, and they completely broke Type 2 and Extended. So the next block, Masques, was overly underpowered. And it was terrible. Well, Masques was terrible. Nemesis had Lin Sivvi, which was huge. And Prophecy is pretty awesome. Maybe not the best set for constructed, but Prophecy is filled with cards that are fantastic for multiplayer, especially EDH.

So then, starting either in or after Prophecy, we had another power creep that peaked with Mirrodin block. Then Wizards felt they got carried away, so they printed Kamigawa, which was arguably even more boring than Masques. Then another power creep started with Ravnica and has extended through present day. Unless you count Coldsnap. Coldsnap was definitely a dip in the power creep.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jul 06 2010 04:20 pm

Power creep is inevitable, but I think WotC does a good job with it. They have a better idea about how far they can push creatures without them being completely broken. Goyf was probably a mistake, though.

Urza's block wasn't so much "power creep" as "we didn't think this one through". Design at that stage was sort of a "let's make stuff we think is cool" process, and, well, a few things that they thought were cool were also broken hardcore. One of the reason I left the game in the first place way back when is because of the whole thing about cards either being godly awesome, or complete trash. The game's a lot more accessible now.

Posted: Jul 06 2010 05:34 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

APLETHORAOFPINATAS wrote:

Im curious how you would view the Urza's set in regards to power creep. Was it too much too soon? Or did Wizards sort of break too many rules at once and it created just vastly overpowered cards.

Urza Block was definitely part of a power creep. Unfortunately, WOTC didn't realize just how powerful some of the cards they had designed were, and they completely broke Type 2 and Extended. So the next block, Masques, was overly underpowered. And it was terrible. Well, Masques was terrible. Nemesis had Lin Sivvi, which was huge. And Prophecy is pretty awesome. Maybe not the best set for constructed, but Prophecy is filled with cards that are fantastic for multiplayer, especially EDH.

So then, starting either in or after Prophecy, we had another power creep that peaked with Mirrodin block. Then Wizards felt they got carried away, so they printed Kamigawa, which was arguably even more boring than Masques. Then another power creep started with Ravnica and has extended through present day. Unless you count Coldsnap. Coldsnap was definitely a dip in the power creep.

Where would you place the Odyssey and Onslaught blocks in those peaks and valleys? Also, what's the current Standard's minimum for blue to just "Counter target spell?" 1UU?

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jul 06 2010 05:53 pm

Quote:

Also, what's the current Standard's minimum for blue to just "Counter target spell?" 1UU?

1UU (Cancel), or UU and return a land to your hand (Deprive).

Posted: Jul 06 2010 06:33 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

As for 3 burn decks coming at me, I'll just Paris down until I get the white leyline in my hand so I can win the game on turn 0.

How would an enchantment that give tokens +1/+1 win the game on turn 0?

Title: Comic Author Joined: Dec 12 2008 Posts: 1179

He means the new white Leyline, coming out in M11:

Leyline of Sanctity - 2WW
Enchantment
If Leyline of Sanctity is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.

You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

Leyline of Sanctity - 2WW
Enchantment
If Leyline of Sanctity is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.

You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.

----

That is nice.. so have to run some Disenchant or Naturalize or something in the decks.. not gunna change much.. also 3 creature based Red Decks with Ball lightnings, Goblin Thief, Hell spark, and spark elemant, and just use the burn to clear his field... could get around it as well.

Posted: Jul 07 2010 02:31 am

APLETHORAOFPINATAS wrote:

Im curious how you would view the Urza's set in regards to power creep. Was it too much too soon? Or did Wizards sort of break too many rules at once and it created just vastly overpowered cards.

Urza's block was a mistake. It was one of the few mistakes they've admitted to. Urza's was intended to be an enchantment themed set, but most people who weren't playing at the time assume it was an artifact set cause of the huge number of ridiculous artifacts in it. I think it was INTENDED to be power creep a little, since Tempest was teh first block to really start pushing the power levels of cards, but when they tried with Urza's they didn't quite know what they were getting themselves into and fucked up hard.

JonSnow wrote:

Leyline of Sanctity - 2WW
Enchantment
If Leyline of Sanctity is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.

You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.

----

That is nice.. so have to run some Disenchant or Naturalize or something in the decks.. not gunna change much.. also 3 creature based Red Decks with Ball lightnings, Goblin Thief, Hell spark, and spark elemant, and just use the burn to clear his field... could get around it as well.

Yeah, red decks don't run disenchants.

Joined: Jun 10 2008 Posts: 172

Speaking of mistakes from Urza's block, I saw they made a Surivial of the Fittest creature. Thats pretty neat, obviously not as cool as the real deal but cool non the less that they would attempt to reuse that mechanic.

Posted: Jul 07 2010 10:57 am

I think the biggest mistake they've made thus far is indestructible. Indestructible has more or less ruined the game for me. My favorite mechanic has always been graveyard recursion, but the existence of indestructible has forced them to print more and more RFG effects to deal with indestructible to the point where creature-based recursion decks just aren't viable in multiplayer.

There's a new knight in the new core set that gives all other knights +1/+1 and indestructible. That's ridiculous! I haven't seen any commons or uncommons in the set, but between that and Day of Judgment, it looks like White Weenie might be viable.

Posted: Jul 07 2010 10:58 am

APLETHORAOFPINATAS wrote:

Speaking of mistakes from Tempest block, I saw they made a Survival of the Fittest creature. Thats pretty neat, obviously not as cool as the real deal but cool non the less that they would attempt to reuse that mechanic.

Fixed. Survival of the Fittest is from Exodus.

Posted: Jul 07 2010 11:33 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

There's a new knight in the new core set that gives all other knights +1/+1 and indestructible. That's ridiculous! I haven't seen any commons or uncommons in the set, but between that and Day of Judgment, it looks like White Weenie might be viable.

1. White Weenie is already viable.
2. Knight Exemplar will not be used, because the only knight played in WW is White Knight, and M11 has no other knights worth speaking of.
3. White Weenie doesn't run Day of Judgment, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why would a deck that's sole win condition is swarming with creatures run a board sweeper like that? WW ran Armageddon, not Wrath, because Armageddon lets you get superior board position and then lock your opponent out of the game. Wrath just lets you fuck yourself in the ass.

#edit: A possible solution to your problem is to stop designing so many combo decks.

Posted: Jul 07 2010 12:22 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

3. White Weenie doesn't run Day of Judgment, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why would a deck that's sole win condition is swarming with creatures run a board sweeper like that? WW ran Armageddon, not Wrath, because Armageddon lets you get superior board position and then lock your opponent out of the game. Wrath just lets you fuck yourself in the ass.

Well, YOU FUCKING MORON, obviously using Day of Judgment was under the assumption that Knight Exemplar would be playable.

And that's not a solution. In fact, that's why I run combos. I would love nothing better than to play a black aggro deck with 4 Living Deaths in it, swing every turn, reset my board when necessary, and maybe throw in a couple Plague Winds for good measure. But that's not viable because everyone wants to run Eldrazi Titans, so everyone runs lots of RFG effects, up to and including Final Judgment.

Posted: Jul 07 2010 12:45 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

3. White Weenie doesn't run Day of Judgment, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why would a deck that's sole win condition is swarming with creatures run a board sweeper like that? WW ran Armageddon, not Wrath, because Armageddon lets you get superior board position and then lock your opponent out of the game. Wrath just lets you fuck yourself in the ass.

Well, YOU FUCKING MORON, obviously using Day of Judgment was under the assumption that Knight Exemplar would be playable.

And that's not a solution. In fact, that's why I run combos. I would love nothing better than to play a black aggro deck with 4 Living Deaths in it, swing every turn, reset my board when necessary, and maybe throw in a couple Plague Winds for good measure. But that's not viable because everyone wants to run Eldrazi Titans, so everyone runs lots of RFG effects, up to and including Final Judgment.

And then they Lightning Bolt your Knight Exemplar in response and make you feel like a fucking retard.

And if you wanna run nothing but combo decks, next time we play cards you can just stay home and text us how many games you won. Seriously, you can't rely on graveyard recursion, so instantly combo is the only other option?

Posted: Jul 07 2010 12:51 pm

Well, why play any decent creature with less than 4 toughness? Your opponent always has lightning bolt and will always be able to burn it.

Well, isn't that why we play EDH? Because combos and racing to see who can get Emrakul into play first are far less viable?

Posted: Jul 07 2010 01:00 pm

Are you proud of that little straw man you built? Yes, all creatures die to removal, asshole. However, it's fucking stupid to play a card in your deck that goes COMPLETELY contrary to the entire point of your deck under the assumption that you will always have another very fragile card in play.

And that's part of it, but also EDH decks take longer to get sick of playing because they tend to play differently all the time.

Joined: Nov 03 2006 Posts: 763

That's it Jeebus, the gloves are off.. I'll take you on... one on one anyday, screw it it'd be too easy. It's a well known fact that metagames take awhile to settle, and new cards and combos awhile to emerge and be made known. That card does sound very strong. The +1+1 indestructible. Especially if it's cost is only 3ish. Just run some card that can grant protection Or what if you got two in play? Or just give that guy shroud with an equip card, or give him an Umbra so he has to die twice and has a high defense? It wouldn't be too hard of an adjustment to take out some cards to protect such a valuble creature. (and they'd have to waste numerous cards to undo your protections, if they do kill him then hopefully those protections allowed him be on the field a few turns and reap havok).
And if nothing else it forces them to lightning bolt that instead of you, it'd be a card for a card, but admitably you do lose out on mana for that turn.

Etiherway, it may not be consistently Top Tier, but it can definitely do well.. It'll all depend on the cost ofthe card, hopefully it has a low cast cost. (It's obviously they have to kill that card, so they will waste a card on it)

So I agree he'll have to adjust his deck so it just doesn't become a useless card, at worst it's a card for a card, with you losing out on the mana cost because of their cheap costing lightning bolt.

Also even if the guy lasted a turn he could make a huge difference..forcing your opponent to not attack.
Honestly I think the card will see play, any decks that run lots of knights, even if he is contrary to the "i have massess of identical monsters, and produce them faster than you kill them" strategy. Just becuase indestructible is very powerful. If nothing else he can become a side board verse certain opponents.

Twisted Evil