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3skulls
Title: Skinned Alive to Death
Joined: Mar 11 2010
Location: San Digital, Ca.
Posts: 70
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Highly disputed topic amongst my friends and others.
Are the Zelda Games a true RPG? If so which ones? If Not what are they?
Your thoughts ladies and gentleman....
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 3skulls means you die.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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action RPG if anything. the only one that had traditional RPG qualities was Zelda II as you leveled up your attack/magic/life
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Arlock41
Title: Naunie
Joined: Dec 07 2008
Posts: 1026
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It's Action/Adventure series(except for Zelda II).
I really don't know why people classify Zelda as an RPG.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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probably cause of the elves. and fairies. and grand storyline.
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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V.B.D.
Joined: Dec 20 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 152
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It has RPG elements. You may not level up in a traditional sense, but you increase health through heart pieces, upgrade weapons and armor, learn magic spells, traverse an overworld, fight through dungeons, etc. It's not hard to see why a more casual gamer would classify it as an RPG.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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RPG stand for role-playing game. It is traditionally used to describe games that have their roots in the mechanics of tabletop RPGs such as D&D.
But a game doesn't need to emulate the mechanics of D&D to fulfill its spirit, or the spirit of RPGs. An RPG, at its core, is a very simple concept: it is an immersive game in which you role-play as a character with powers, possessions, skills, and/or abilities very different from your own.
So any game that successfully immerses you in a character could be considered an RPG.
Are the Zelda games RPGs? Unquestionably.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
RPG stand for role-playing game. It is traditionally used to describe games that have their roots in the mechanics of tabletop RPGs such as D&D.
But a game doesn't need to emulate the mechanics of D&D to fulfill its spirit, or the spirit of RPGs. An RPG, at its core, is a very simple concept: it is an immersive game in which you role-play as a character with powers, possessions, skills, and/or abilities very different from your own.
So any game that successfully immerses you in a character could be considered an RPG.
Are the Zelda games RPGs? Unquestionably. |
Weak, I understand the point you are making, but using this logic, one can call "Contra" or "Sonic" an RPG.
Zelda is first and foremost an adventure title, then you see that it is loaded with action and sprinkled with light RPG elements (some more than others, Zelda II is the most like a "true RPG").
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
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If you can get fully immersed in Sonic or Contra, then you can call it an RPG.
If you can reverse engineer a video game into a significantly faithful D&D or GURPS campaign, then it could be considered an RPG.
Pac-Man? Not an RPG.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| Pac-Man? Not an RPG. |
Based on your logic, if you were to become "fully immersed" in the idea that you are a yellow circle with a slice missing munching on dots, fruit and pretzels hiding from ghosts, than why wouldn't Pac-man be considered an RPG?
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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What, if anything is RPG about it? The second game definately is, but outside of that...I can't think of anything that would classify it along those lines. It doesn't make it any less of a game, so RPG fans shouldn't get their panties in a bunch over nothing.
If you want an RPG with a Legend of Zelda style engine, play Crystallis.
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slapolakinkaido
Title: Illegitimate Son of God
Joined: Jul 14 2009
Posts: 1565
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If you can consider Zelda an RPG, then by that logic you'd have to call Metroid an RPG. It's an action game, but you can go multiple directions, explore, find items and powerups to build up your character and increase your abilities. So the question is really 'how do you define an RPG?' Does it matter with the play control itself? Does it require the absence of an action oriented style of play control? Or does it require the presence of a plot line, along with the opportunity for customization and modification of the character himself? Perhaps it's just the presence of dialogue? In Metroid there is no dialogue obviously, however certain other action games have had dialogue. Bionic Commando, or Strider for example. So maybe instead of classifying games as RPG or non-RPG, perhaps there should be degrees of classification. Like on a scale of 1 to 5, '5' being the 'most RPG-like' and '1' being the least RPG-like, maybe classify Zelda as a 3.8 on the RPG scale. Whereas Metroid may get a 2.4
How about something like that?
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 11244
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
RPG stand for role-playing game. It is traditionally used to describe games that have their roots in the mechanics of tabletop RPGs such as D&D.
But a game doesn't need to emulate the mechanics of D&D to fulfill its spirit, or the spirit of RPGs. An RPG, at its core, is a very simple concept: it is an immersive game in which you role-play as a character with powers, possessions, skills, and/or abilities very different from your own.
So any game that successfully immerses you in a character could be considered an RPG.
Are the Zelda games RPGs? Unquestionably. |
I think Syd's point is mostly true, however it is missing a qualification.
A game would be categorized into the genre that it most strongly matches. Just because a game has RPG elements does not make it an RPG. In some cases when a game is equally divided amongst multiple genres it would be a part of both.
Example:
Unreal Tournament is a FPS. It is not an RPG. Even though it has a story and you are a character in the story, the primary and strongest genre match is a FPS.
Example:
Prince of Persia is a Third Person Action Adventure game. It is not an RPG. There is character development and immersion into the Prince's character, but it isn't as dominant as the puzzle solving or monster slaying.
So, with that qualification, The Legend of Zelda most certainly does have RPG elements, but it is not a RPG. It is an Isometric Platformer Action-Adventure game due to its perspective, attack methods and puzzles. If the collection of items makes you more strongly believe that the game is an equal part RPG, I would contend that the items are in fact usually part of the puzzles. Think about it. The Magic sword is a required upgrade to fight the final boss. The whistle is demanded to open a labyrinth. Bombs open walls, flames burn trees while rafts and ladders allow further exploration.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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An excellent point, GP.
An in relation to your examples, I would like point out that games are getting harder and harder to classify within a single genre. To classify Fallout 3 solely as an RPG or Thief solely as an FPS, though both contain basic elements of those genres, does neither one any justice.
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NotEnoughGolds
Joined: Feb 16 2010
Posts: 130
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| GPFontaine wrote: |
| Isometric Platformer Action-Adventure |
Platformer?
Zelda II is the only platformer of the bunch, and it's also definitely an RPG.
So Action-Adventure for most Zeldas, Platformer Action-RPG for Zelda II.
| Doddsino wrote: |
If you want an RPG with a Legend of Zelda style engine, play Crystallis.
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It's hard to argue with this, but truth be told, I'd rather replay Ys Book I & II.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| GPFontaine wrote: |
| It is an Isometric Platformer Action-Adventure game due to its perspective, attack methods and puzzles. |
Yes, that is essentially the point I was making. I like the Isometric-Platformer term, nice, never heard it referred to as such but that is exactly what it is.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
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I dunno. I think the lack of significant jumping abilities in everything except Zelda 2 disqualifies it as a platformer.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| An in relation to your examples, I would like point out that games are getting harder and harder to classify within a single genre. To classify Fallout 3 solely as an RPG or Thief solely as an FPS, though both contain basic elements of those genres, does neither one any justice. |
Yea, true FPS/RPG's are my favorite "combo genre" if done well. Borderlands did a particularly fantastic job of this.
The weapons are pretty endless, the leveling is great and so is the stat allocation process and general story progression. The online coop is fantastic, partying up to take down tougher quests is very satisfying. The shooting mechanics are also very satisfying, far more than Fallout 3 IMO, head-shots feel better than ever.
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| I dunno. I think the lack of significant jumping abilities in everything except Zelda 2 disqualifies it as a platformer. |
There are still platform elements like jumping off ledges, clearing gaps with hookshots, shit like that. It is even more prevalent in the 3D iterations.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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| Andrew Man wrote: |
| Syd Lexia wrote: |
| I dunno. I think the lack of significant jumping abilities in everything except Zelda 2 disqualifies it as a platformer. |
There are still platform elements like jumping off ledges, clearing gaps with hookshots, shit like that. It is even more prevalent in the 3D iterations. |
Keep in mind that these elements were completely lacking in the original Zelda. There was absolutely no jumping in those games. Also:
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| The platform game (or platformer) is a video game genre characterized by jumping to and from suspended platforms or over obstacles (jumping puzzles). It must be possible to control these jumps and to fall from platforms or miss jumps. The most common unifying element to these games is a jump button; other jump mechanics include swinging from extendable arms, as in Ristar or Bionic Commando, or bouncing from springboards or trampolines, as in Alpha Waves. These mechanics, even in the context of other genres, are commonly called "platforming," a verbification of the term "platform." Games where jumping is automated completely, such as The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, fall outside of the genre. |
Wikipedia also classified most LOZ games as Action-Adventure, and Zelda 2 as Action-RPG.
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Grover
Joined: Mar 01 2010
Posts: 126
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By my understanding, RPG's are defined by the experience mechanic whereby your character gains levels and becomes stronger as objectives are completed..
This would make Zelda II the only one that would be an RPG. The others I think fit better as Action-Adventure games.
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Cameron
Title: :O � O:
Joined: Feb 01 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4637
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| Grover wrote: |
By my understanding, RPG's are defined by the experience mechanic whereby your character gains levels and becomes stronger as objectives are completed..
This would make Zelda II the only one that would be an RPG. The others I think fit better as Action-Adventure games. |
I was about to post pretty much exactly this when I saw that you did already.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Leveling is not necessary a prerequisite. In addition to leveling, RPGs generally feature sequential dungeons with slightly better equipment obtained in or near each dungeon. Zelda cuts out the leveling, but maintains sequential dungeons. And as already pointed out, Heart Containers are esssentially a proxy for leveling.
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Douche McCallister
Moderator
Title: DOO-SHAY
Joined: Jan 26 2007
Location: Private Areas
Posts: 5672
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Yes but how many RPG games can you legitimately beat without any "leveling".
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
Posts: 10376
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Gonna go with the no duh asshole answer, since almost every game involves the player playing a roll I'd say all games are role playing games.
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eatpork
Joined: May 24 2010
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 91
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I never thought so... of course, I'm still not sure what really constitutes an RPG. I always thought an RPG was a game where your character gains new strengths and power through playing... which doesn't really sit well with the title role-playing game, you'd think something like that would be a game where the playing character is someone with no apparent persona, just what you make him/her (like DnD) in which case... I guess Zelda would be more of an RPG than Final Fantasy (at least 2 through 13, excluding 11). In Zelda, you don't really power up besides weapon and health, so it definitely has RPG elements.
I guess it all depends on your definition of RPG.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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| Douche McCallister wrote: |
| Yes but how many RPG games can you legitimately beat without any "leveling". |
Leveling exists in most RPG games as an invisible wall of sorts. You cannot explore areas that you're not supposed to, because you don't have the stats or equipment necessary to beat the enemies in those area. This adds a degree of linearity to open map RPGs that would otherwise not exist. If you could beat every enemy right away, you could play the game out of order. Later RPGs, such as Final Fantasy IV, would additionally force linearity by limiting the sections of the map that were available to you at various points in the game.
Leveling also exists in RPGs with turn-based combat because it's the only way to make turn-based combat interesting and equitable.
RPGs that use real-time combat do not require a level system, because the combat is actively taking place. In a turn-based RPG, when a powerful enemy unleashes a powerful attack, your goal is have to stats high enough to absorb the attack and not die. In an active RPG, when a powerful enemy unleashes a powerful attack, your goal is to actually DODGE it. Thus, leveling and stat-farming are not a necessary mechanic. Crystalis, one of my favorite NES games, requires leveling, and it's kind of stupid. Sometimes you'll get to a boss, and you won't be able to beat him simply your level isn't high enough. It's a useless mechanic, especially since the game is pretty linear.
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