Israel is in a Catch-22.

If they release Gaza they welcome their enemies to have closer military positions against them. If they don't release it, they look like imperialists.

So what is to be done?

Honestly, lets call it what it is, there is a small piece of religiously significant land that Jews happen to live in. They are surrounded by a world of primarily anti-Semitic people. Where would you have them go? What would you have them do? Every inch they give up is an inch they will never regain. This isn't just a country's boundary that is being discussed. It is a religion, a culture and a people.

So who can live in the land if Israel owns it? Anyone of any religion who becomes an Israeli citizen.
Who can live in the land if Israel does not own it? Palestinians, and certainly not Jews.

So why would supply ships with relief aid be stopped right now? Because even without world recognition, Israel is always at war. If the military feels that the enemy would be more dangerous with supplies, they will cut them off. We would do the same thing, we simply aren't at war and therefore don't recognize the one that is going on.

Personally I wish for a peaceful solution. I wish that Gaza could be given back to the Palestinians and that they could happily live with their neighbors. Everyone on earth knows that it won't be that way though.

Vaenamoenen wrote:

GPFontaine wrote: Honestly, lets call it what it is, there is a small piece of religiously significant land that Jews happen to live in. Well, they don't just happen to live there... Israel was specifically founded for Jews in 1948 with the help of UN, as you probably know. And Israel isn't so small anymore.

Why is your history starting in 1948?

Jewish diaspora has been the horror of the Hebrew people for the last several millenia. The land has been claimed by Jews since it was originally vacant and was promised by god to Abraham as a home for the Jewish people ~3822 years ago. In this particular conversation the topic of who's god is being discussed can be ignored because both Islam and Judaism are Abrahamic religions.

From the time that the Jews were dispersed by the Romans until the time that the UN helped solidify the country, the land was politically controlled by non-Jewish leadership.

So now in our current time, it would seem as though the land was newly created for Jews. But the truth is, few cultures around the globe that still exist predate the promise of that land. Once again, I'll point out that Christians, Muslims and Jews all recognize the promise religiously, there are simply different perspectives as to changes that have occurred between that time and now. Either way, it isn't a good idea to pretend that this issue is a 62 year old one.

Vaenamoenen wrote:

Quote: They are surrounded by a world of primarily anti-Semitic people. Where would you have them go? What would you have them do? Every inch they give up is an inch they will never regain. This isn't just a country's boundary that is being discussed. It is a religion, a culture and a people. So who can live in the land if Israel owns it? Anyone of any religion who becomes an Israeli citizen. Who can live in the land if Israel does not own it? Palestinians, and certainly not Jews. But there lived a whole bunch of Jews in the area before the founding of Israel for hundreds of years, didn't there? A nation state with jews & muslims is 100% possible. However, due to major theological & political views in the area, a state cannot be a muslim state & jewish state at the same time. Originally, Israel was supposed to be a nation state. The Six-day war in 1967 led to the rise of both religious right-wing Zionism, and more radical interpretations of Islam in the area. Zionism with Jewish state in mind and Hamas grew from there.

It absolutely did. Don't pretend that extremists are the only people who exist though. If I were to fill a room with people from the middle east of various religions, you couldn't tell me who practices what religion based on anything other than clothing and hair style. The people who are native to the region are native period.

In Israel as it stands now, if you are native to the land, you are allowed to practice your religion. There is no rule against being Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, etc... More importantly you will not be persecuted for practicing any religion by the government.

The sad thing about the history of the land is that when non-Jewish leadership exists there, Jews die. This isn't some sort of ghost story or tall tale. Jews are historically hated and persecuted. I still have no idea why, but that is just how history has played out.

So if you were Jewish and people were telling you that your capital city should be half theirs and you should be giving up bits and pieces of a land border defined in 1948 that puts you at a military disadvantage. How would you react? What would you do?

Vaenamoenen wrote:

I think international community should leave the "God promised" -stuff out, when trying to figure out a solution.

I don't think it is possible. You are talking about a covenant. The abandonment of faith would be necessary.