SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

The Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame has been around for a while, but I am not sure why.

Professional Wrestling for all of its pros and cons is a scripted event. Giving fake characters honorary awards for being scripted into the plot more often just seems... well... scripted.

In my mind this would be like having a Lord of the Rings Hall of Fame where Aragorn, Frodo, Gandalf, Sam and Legolas are inducted but we all wonder what about Gimli, Boromir and the other hobbits.

Perhaps I am missing something. I'm not knocking Wrestling here, just curious about why there is a Hall of Fame for it. And maybe the more worthy question is why aren't the actors inducted instead of the characters?

Posted: Dec 15 2009 12:36 pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with honoring/rewarding people who made significant contributions to a cause, whether it's athletic competition or not. Guys like Killer Kowalski, Andre the Giant and Hulk Hogan got professional wrestling to where it is today.

Baseball has its Hall of Fame, Science/Public Service has its Nobel Peace Prize, Rock N Roll has a Hall of Fame, Hollywood has those stars they give famous actors, etc. Professional Wrestling shouldn't be any different.

But I do agree with your idea about honoring the actors, rather than their wrestling incarnations. Some of the most influential wrestlers of all time have had many characters, such as Mick Foley.

Posted: Dec 15 2009 02:20 pm

^ I think he pretty much nailed it. The awards are for the people who made a significant contribution to the art. That's the wrestlers, managers, etc. It only makes sense that they go in in character though--I mean, for one thing, part of the charm of wrestling IS its wink-and-a-nudge kayfabe, even if 99% of all the fans (well except this one redneck guy I worked with once, but that's a whooole other story) know its scripted and acted. Besides, its just more FUN that way. When I go to the PWHoF, I want to see The Heartbreak Kid Shawn Michaels, dammit, not an alter to Michael Shawn Hickenbottom. That would be like, I dunno, going to that Star Wars museum exhibit and seeing the actor's coffee mugs instead of Darth Vader's costume and Luke's lightsaber.

As for the multiple characters, look at it this way: even athletes go into the hall of fame in one "incarnation," that is, in the uniform of the team they're most famous for. Same with most pro wrestlers. That some wrestlers are famous for multiple characters and so are in the hall multiple times is one of wrestling's charming quirks. (And although I've never been, I wouldn't be surprised if a place like the NFL HoF has multiple-team memorabilia for people who play famously and very well for multiple teams.

Posted: Dec 15 2009 02:35 pm

They wouldn't be scripted in if they didn't play their role well.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Like I said, I'm not against the award for the actors, but the honor should go to them, not their character.

Accolades are deserved by Terry Bollea, André Roussimoff, Michael Francis. They were the reason why you enjoyed Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, and Mick Foley. Killer Kowalski is cool as is because he actually changed his legal name to Killer Kowalski.

SoldierHawk wrote:

That would be like, I dunno, going to that Star Wars museum exhibit and seeing the actor's coffee mugs instead of Darth Vader's costume and Luke's lightsaber.

It isn't like that because it isn't a Hall of Fame. A wrestling museum can honor characters, but a hall of fame is a prestige thing. Fake prestige is fake.

If you went to a Star Wars museum and they were honoring Darth Vader as a hall of famer over Han Solo it would make no sense. They had rolls that were written, so of course Darth Vader's role is larger in the grand scheme of things because 6 stories were written about him.

Posted: Dec 16 2009 02:32 pm

^ Yeah, I kinda thought of that actually but it was still the best analogy I could come up with. Confused

I wish I had something more intelligent to add, but I'll think of something later. Just wanted to acknowledge your point.

Joined: Oct 12 2007 Posts: 821

It probably goes all the way back to the days where kayfabe was everything. I know there should be more I should add to this, but really that is all I have to add.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

If you read accounts of a lot of the shoot style wrestling of the 30's and 40's, you would be amazed at how much it's evolved.

There was once a time where a "submission" hold could take over an hour to take effect.

Posted: Dec 16 2009 07:19 pm

The wrestles ARE their characters though. Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair. These are the names these people choose to go by, both inside the ring and out. Even Hulk's best friends call him Hulk!

Posted: Dec 16 2009 08:52 pm

Yeah, and it's also a sign of respect to call wrestlers by their ring names. Triple H wouldn't want his co-worker or a fan to go "Hey Paul, can I get an autograph for my son?".

Posted: Dec 16 2009 09:16 pm

Also, note that the Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame has only been around since 2002 and nobody gives a shit about it.

The one that people care about is the WWE Hall of Fame, and of course they are going to use the ring names of their former stars. A hall of fame induction by the WWE is usually accompanied by a Legends contract, which includes merchandising.

Joined: Oct 01 2009 Posts: 5316

I actually care about the actual Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame since I doubt WWE is ever going to induct guys like Lou Thesz, Ed Lewis, Frank Gotch and Georg Hackenschmidt.

Posted: Dec 16 2009 09:59 pm

Syd Lexia wrote:

The wrestles ARE their characters though. Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair. These are the names these people choose to go by, both inside the ring and out. Even Hulk's best friends call him Hulk!

Exactly. I doubt Axl Rose will go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as Bill Bailey.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

scamrock wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

The wrestles ARE their characters though. Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair. These are the names these people choose to go by, both inside the ring and out. Even Hulk's best friends call him Hulk!

Exactly. I doubt Axl Rose will go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as Bill Bailey.

There is a difference between a pseudonym and a character name.

People who prefer a pseudonym are still people and their accolades belong to them.

Characters are fictitious beings that are written by authors. People who play characters are actors. If an actor chooses to be called by their character name outside of the character's environment it becomes a pseudonym.

Posted: Dec 17 2009 02:32 pm

You're Drawing a distinction that simply isn't there. Watch "The Wrestler".

Posted: Dec 17 2009 08:18 pm

In the independents it's usually the wresters who choose their own gimmacks, but once you get into the big leagues such as WWE/TNA/(And formerly ECW & WCW), the booker/writers create a gimmick/persona for you. If you are one of the lucky ones, you get a persona that is basically yourself with the volume turned way up. (Stone Cold, The Rock, Kurt Angle, John Cena, Bret Hart, HBK, etc.) Those who are not as lucky get a cartoon-like gimmick. If you do not embrace this gimmick, you will fail. I mean look at the people who embraced what at one time where pretty shitty gimmicks, and turned it into past/future Hall of Famers:

The Undertaker - He is the king of taking a cheesey gimmick of a Wild West Undertaker, and rolling with it. He will be remembered as being the most successful wrestling star who was stuck with a Cheese Gimmick. Also, when he is retired, how many people would recognise the name "Mark Callus" on the Hall of Fame programs?

Hunter Hearst Helmsley - Vince, himself, created this gimmick. You know what the inspiration was behind it? His new neighbors. He had just recently moved into a mansion in Greenwich, Conn and found himself surrounded by blue-blood snobs who held their noses up to him. This was Vince's revenge: making a mockery of them. Paul Lenvensque took this and ran with it long enough, and jumped through the hoops, to transform it into the "HHH" he is today.

Mankind - Mick Foley, who spent his pre-WWE days has the badass Catus Jack, found himself given a mask and told to be a nutjob monster. It was Mick Foley's charisma that allowed him to let people know that he was more than just another "monster of the week" that was created for the Babyfaces to overcome every week. Think of all the other monsters who have come and gone in the flash of an eye. Some giant beast that tore thier way through the ranks only to be squashed by the Champion and never heard from again.

These are just a few. But, these are people who embraced their gimmicks, and will be remembered for them. They carry their given names like badges of honor. When they retire they will not go back to their birth names. They will still be making appearances at shows, reunions, and autograph signings as these characters. And, this is how they will be inducted in the Hall of Fames.

Posted: Dec 17 2009 09:00 pm

Of course, you could also look at the Hall of Fame as a simple extension of the 'show' that is Pro Wrestling. Therefore, of course wrestlers go into the Hall as their characters--because the Hall itself is still part of the overall story's continuity, and so the actors don't exist within that world.

Of course, like all things in wrestling this is done with a wink and a nod since 99% of people understand that these are just that--characters. But even fans who understand that don't want to come to the hall and see Paul Levesque and Michael Hickenbottom--they want to see the characters. And so that's what the WWE gives them, and they incorporate that into their story lines. Which is why you have the characters, and not the actors, inducting each other. Its like the Slammy Awards--this last week you had the characters fighting over who gets the Wrestler of the Year award.

I guess you could argue that in some ways it makes the honor meaningless, but (again, like with most things having to do with pro wrestling) you kind of have to use Doublethink for it to make sense. Yes being inducted is part of the show, but pretty much only people who truly deserve it are inducted. It works, even if it seems weird.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

SoldierHawk wrote:

Of course, you could also look at the Hall of Fame as a simple extension of the 'show' that is Pro Wrestling. Therefore, of course wrestlers go into the Hall as their characters--because the Hall itself is still part of the overall story's continuity, and so the actors don't exist within that world.

Under this context I think it actually makes sense.

If it is just another part of the show, then it works.

Posted: Dec 18 2009 12:32 am

I enjoyed this thread. Everyone provided a lot of valid points.

But the real question remains, why does Tone Loc have a greatest hits album?

Posted: Dec 18 2009 12:41 am

Because Tone Loc had two major hits, "Funky Cold Medina" & "Wild Thing", one was was greater than the other, so he had a "Greatest Hit", therefore he qualifies to have a Greatest Hits album.

Personally, I'd much rather get:

Posted: Dec 18 2009 05:58 am

GPFontaine wrote:

scamrock wrote:

Syd Lexia wrote:

The wrestles ARE their characters though. Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair. These are the names these people choose to go by, both inside the ring and out. Even Hulk's best friends call him Hulk!

Exactly. I doubt Axl Rose will go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as Bill Bailey.

There is a difference between a pseudonym and a character name.

People who prefer a pseudonym are still people and their accolades belong to them.

Characters are fictitious beings that are written by authors. People who play characters are actors. If an actor chooses to be called by their character name outside of the character's environment it becomes a pseudonym.

I get what you are saying. Not all of these guys go by these names outside of wrestling. But, like Syd said, a lot of them do. Hulk Hogan would be the best example. Even his family has taken on the name Hogan (Brooke Hogan, Nick Hogan, etc).

A lot of the guys who own or have partial ownership of their character turn it into a brand that extends beyond pro wrestling.

Posted: Dec 19 2009 07:32 pm

THERE IS NO JIM HELLWIG!

Joined: Jul 06 2008 Posts: 142

how about dink the clown he also did amazing things with his gimmick

Posted: Dec 20 2009 07:08 pm

wrestling is just an excuse for oversized idiots to touch each other...

Posted: Dec 20 2009 07:26 pm

dddddddd wrote:

how about dink the clown he also did amazing things with his gimmick

That raises an interesting question. What about Doink? Doink was played by like three different guys. Who do you induct? The character? All three performers? One of the performers?