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Java Technology - Clear as Mud


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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 09:12 am Reply with quote Back to top

As a computing professional nothing frustrates me as much as Java's ridiculously large footprint of nonsense.

Image

Honestly, no one gives a fuck SUN. Make one package and make it smaller and easier to use. JDK, JRE, Java SE API, honestly, no one wants to deal with your headache. Most of the time when we meet a Java app we wish that it were made with Flash, HTML, or some less shitty language.

Don't get me wrong, at its core, Java is a pretty strong language with a lot of potential. This is not an excuse for the fact that it has had that potential for the last decade and managed to grow only more confusing and obnoxious over the years.



 
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Rydog
Title: Dragon Slayer
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Location: Massachusetts
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 09:14 am Reply with quote Back to top

That's not gonna be on the test, right?
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 09:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

Rydog wrote:
That's not gonna be on the test, right?

The only question on the test is, "Do you like Java?"

If you answer yes, then you are doomed to the land of Linux Geekdom where you will be forced to grow a ponytail, avoid showers, and never use a GUI interface again! In turn, you will never EVER have sex with another human being again.



 
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Dr. Jeebus
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Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 10:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

I live Java in that it's legitimately object oriented, not mostly object oriented like C++, so it's a nice teaching tool. I learned C++ first, but I had a little difficulty when we got to functions because C++ had been to kind of us with cin and cout. It wasn't until I had to learn Java that I really got a handle on functions. Other than as a teaching tool, however, it's pretty terrible.


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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 10:50 am Reply with quote Back to top

GPFontaine wrote:
...and never use a GUI interface again!...

isnt that redundant? im not a IT guy, far from it in fact, but doesnt GUI stand for Graphical User Interface? eh, whatev. i guess it ultimately doesnt matter.

bla bla bla... too much nerd IT talk. but, that pic GP showed is ridiculous.


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Nekkoru
Title: Polish Pickle Wench
Joined: Jan 25 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 01:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Java has one redeeming factor: you can run most applets on anything capable of hosting a JVM.

But it can be said about any interpreted programming language, like Python. Hell, you probably could run a Python interpreter on a C64.

But fuck Java. I have yet to see a good example of Java on a website. Or anywhere, really. Of course, I'm not talking about JavaScript, which is completely unrelated.


You should totally check out the IRC channel.
While you're at it, go check out my band, Her Majesty's Heroines.
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Tyop
Title: Grammar Nazi
Joined: May 04 2008
Location: Sauerkrautland
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 03:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Nekkoru wrote:
I have yet to see a good example of Java on a website. Or anywhere, really.

You have seen it, you're just not aware of it. The days in which Java basically meant applets on a websites are long gone. That market has unfortunately been claimed by Flash, Silverlight and similarly crappy, proprietary junk. Today the vast majority of Java applications are running not on but behind websites, whether it's dynamically generating HTML with JSP or extending web server capabilities with Servlets. Java is also the most commonly used language for application servers thanks to things like Apache Tomcat or JBoss. And it runs on countless embedded devices that you never even know are there, as well as cell phones and PDAs. Granted, despite notable exceptions like Azureus, Java is still a niche language for desktop application development, but other than that, it's pretty much everywhere.

One reason for Java's omnipresence, by the way, is precisely because it's not just Yet Another Interpreted Language like Python or Ruby, which are both exquisite languages in their own way, but whose interpreters lack important features the JVM offers, such as its sandbox security system. There's a reason both Python and Ruby have native Java implementations, Jython and JRuby, that allow programs written in each respective language to run on any computer that has a JVM installed.

The other reason for Java's widespread success and why so many programmers choose the language is the impressive technology stack shown in the picture above. All those readily available libraries let you focus on the problem at hand instead of having to reinvent the wheel every time. Sure, the number of different packages and editions may seem confusing, but at the end of the day the time you save by having them far exceeds the time you have to invest to get to know them and the way they work together.



 
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
PostPosted: Oct 28 2009 04:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Tyop wrote:
Nekkoru wrote:
I have yet to see a good example of Java on a website. Or anywhere, really.

You have seen it, you're just not aware of it. The days in which Java basically meant applets on a websites are long gone. That market has unfortunately been claimed by Flash, Silverlight and similarly crappy, proprietary junk. Today the vast majority of Java applications are running not on but behind websites, whether it's dynamically generating HTML with JSP or extending web server capabilities with Servlets. Java is also the most commonly used language for application servers thanks to things like Apache Tomcat or JBoss. And it runs on countless embedded devices that you never even know are there, as well as cell phones and PDAs. Granted, despite notable exceptions like Azuerus, Java is still a niche language for desktop application development, but other than that, it's pretty much everywhere.

One reason for Java's omnipresence, by the way, is precisely because it's not just Yet Another Interpretive Language like Python or Ruby, which are both exquisite languages in their own way, but whose interpreters lack important features the JVM offers, such as its sandbox security system. There's a reason both Python and Ruby have native Java implementations, Jython and JRuby, that allow programs written in each respective language to run on any computer that has a JVM installed.

The other reason for Java's widespread success and why so many programmers choose the language is the impressive technology stack shown in the picture above. All those readily available libraries let you focus on the problem at hand instead of having to reinvent the wheel every time. Sure, the number of different packages and editions may seem confusing, but at the end of the day the time you save by having them far exceeds the time you have to invest to get to know them and the way they work together.


Man I am screwed when I take my computer competency class because I understand like 1/5 of that


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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Oct 29 2009 08:53 am Reply with quote Back to top

Optimist With Doubts wrote:
Tyop wrote:
Nekkoru wrote:
I have yet to see a good example of Java on a website. Or anywhere, really.

You have seen it, you're just not aware of it. The days in which Java basically meant applets on a websites are long gone. That market has unfortunately been claimed by Flash, Silverlight and similarly crappy, proprietary junk. Today the vast majority of Java applications are running not on but behind websites, whether it's dynamically generating HTML with JSP or extending web server capabilities with Servlets. Java is also the most commonly used language for application servers thanks to things like Apache Tomcat or JBoss. And it runs on countless embedded devices that you never even know are there, as well as cell phones and PDAs. Granted, despite notable exceptions like Azuerus, Java is still a niche language for desktop application development, but other than that, it's pretty much everywhere.

One reason for Java's omnipresence, by the way, is precisely because it's not just Yet Another Interpretive Language like Python or Ruby, which are both exquisite languages in their own way, but whose interpreters lack important features the JVM offers, such as its sandbox security system. There's a reason both Python and Ruby have native Java implementations, Jython and JRuby, that allow programs written in each respective language to run on any computer that has a JVM installed.

The other reason for Java's widespread success and why so many programmers choose the language is the impressive technology stack shown in the picture above. All those readily available libraries let you focus on the problem at hand instead of having to reinvent the wheel every time. Sure, the number of different packages and editions may seem confusing, but at the end of the day the time you save by having them far exceeds the time you have to invest to get to know them and the way they work together.


Man I am screwed when I take my computer competency class because I understand like 1/5 of that

I understood about 100% of what he said, but it all comes back around to Java causes cancer and will give you hepatitis. Consider yourself lucky, I don't think you want either of those ailments.



 
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Nekkoru
Title: Polish Pickle Wench
Joined: Jan 25 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
PostPosted: Oct 29 2009 12:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm still thinking of learning Java just for the hell of it. It might come in handy one day.


You should totally check out the IRC channel.
While you're at it, go check out my band, Her Majesty's Heroines.
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GPFontaine
Joined: Dec 06 2007
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Oct 29 2009 01:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Nekkoru wrote:
I'm still thinking of learning Java just for the hell of it. It might come in handy one day.

The basic object oriented nature of Java makes it a good language to learn. It doesn't mean it is a good language to use for production though.



 
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