I've been keeping track of this thread for the last few days and I've actually been talking to a few people about this issue.

DarkMaze, you've stumbled upon quite a fascinating, but problematic aspect of indie filmmaking. You've made a great niche movie, but the primary audience are people who pretty much have more lenient beliefs in file sharing. That's an issue when making a movie for people who illegally download roms, watch several films for free on websites, and then torrent the hell out of whatever they want daily. It's an audience that's accustom to "stealing". This isn't really new as movies have been stolen for years; "Clerks" was the most often stolen movie from video stores. However, there's been an explosion of piracy as technology makes file sharing that much easier and studios are now not as able to keep up.

For us independent filmmakers, we have to face these growing realities, but normally we don't worry about piracy because it really is more mainstream movies that get downloaded. Not as many people are going to download the indie drug-pedophile-gay leprechaun movie some guy in Cleveland made, because it doesn't have the same interest nor the exposure. "Press Start" is amazing because it is an independent movie for people who normally don't like indie cinema. But because that audience is the same that downloads other more mainstream movies, the sympathies aren't there for the filmmaker.

This issue absolutely blows my mind. I figured someone might upload it, but I never considered this issue about audience and lifestyle. While this creates an absolutely horrible situation for you, I can't help but marvel at what you've discovered. This is a serious issue, but often ignored by filmmakers like us; maybe we're too humble to consider ourselves worth stealing from.

So I've talked with a few other people about this problem and there's really no way to protect ourselves from it at the moment. If people want to steal it, they're going to in too many numbers than we have to fight. Mostly, other filmmakers don't worry about it, because they know their audience are people who go to the independent screenings and festivals. Several indie filmmakers also travel the festival circuit with their films and slowly recoup costs that way hoping to find a distribution deal. "Press Start" did not have that luxury. I don't know whether festivals would've accepted the film or not, but I can understand the decision to get the film to DVD rather than keep it shelved and shown to only a few people for a year or two.

I'm not sure what the solution is, because right now the moral seems to be: "don't make a movie for the video game nerds" and I hate that message. Maybe merchandising is a solution, or developing other products to sell, but there's always the question of who's going to buy it if they just want the movie?

This problem has gotten me to think about the piracy issue and how it would affect my work. I know there's a chance that "Dickie: The Feature" might have a similar issue. Except that we're looking into a more traditional model of making the movie financially (ie: begging for money and selling the rights). I'm also developing some tie-ins with the project that might also help recoup .05% of the costs. There's a second feature I'm also developing which is much more of a traditional independent movie in that the audience market will be more of the art house types. I wouldn't expect that film to have the same pirate issues that "Press Start" has, but it has made me aware of it.

Again, this whole situation sucks. As a fellow indie filmmaker, I find it disgusting that pirates feel the need to steal and distribute a independent movie in this way. There's just no honor amongst thieves.

But to be fair, I was planning of having a "Press Start" screening with my friends, which due to time hasn't happened... and that wouldn't be as bad as this internet theft scandal. But I did screen the first ten minutes for someone. So... sorry if that's frowned upon.

Anyway, I don't know if there's a simple solution here, but I do know that what you could do is tour with the film and lecture about this piracy issue for film schools across the country. I know my niche of people would be interested to know the problems you've run into over this. Plus, you'd get to make some special speaker $$$.

DarkMaze wrote:

And like I said there's all kinds of grey area when it comes to downloading in general. iTunes makes you pay for song downloads? Fine. But they only give it to you in their proprietary format that you can't play on non-iPod MP3 players. Bullshit.

Except there's ways even around that, because I still don't own an iPod, but I buy from iTunes quite a bit. Though now I'm just lazy and just burn a CD and reimport, but I have fancier-more hi-tech Mission:Impossibly ways around it if I wanted to.

Speaking of which, look into getting a distribution deal with iTunes and "Press Start". I have no idea what that would entail, but I do know they want more indie films and I'm 98% sure they'd still allow you to sell the film yourself in any other ways you see fit; you just might not be able to sell it through Amazon Downloads or something.

DarkMaze wrote:

To go a little further, though: unlike painting, writing, or sometimes even music, filmmaking is not a one-man art. It takes writers, actors, directors, cinematographers, electric crew, and all the other titles you see in a movie's credits. In very low-budget films many of those roles are consolidated, but it's never a one-person endeavor. All of those people put significant time and effort into making the film a reality.

Amen!

DarkMaze wrote:

To put it a different way, I couldn't do it a second time with that kind of budget. I couldn't ask those people to do a fortune's worth of work for free again. I can't do the work of every crewperson -- most of which I have little to no training in -- again. It was impossibly taxing. In order to make another film, I need to do more than buy better equipment; I need to be able to pay people.

So much of that is exactly true. I can't even find people to work for free for me now. But what you have now, DM, is a great portfolio piece, so you have a much better chance at securing investors and more qualified crew workers. Hopefully, your next project will help recoup your investment.

...God, that feels so shitty to write, because I'm effectively saying "Press Start" is a bomb. It's a good movie and it does deserve to be just as successful financially as it is creatively!

DarkMaze wrote:

Now, with regard to this whole "art" issue... Here's the thing. If you just want to make music/movies/art/whatever purely for yourself, as a hobby, with no real concern to how well it sells or making a living doing it, as B.B. seems to, that's absolutely cool -- there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to make a living off it, it's different. What a lot of wannabe-professional artists don't understand is that they're creating a product. It therefore needs to be treated like one. Art or not, you're trying to reach a target audience and you have to always keep that in mind. You market a film like any other product. Now before anyone screams "OMG YOUR JUST IN IT FOR DA MONEYZ," realize that these things are not mutually exclusive. I could probably list a hundred choices off the top of my head that I made during the production of Press Start that were made for marketing reasons, and yet they had nothing to do with me making the most entertaining movie I could -- something I'd want to see myself. Same goes for any art form. A good marketing strategy gets the word out, gets your name out, gets people to buy your product, and brings you one step closer to making a living doing it.

I seriously hope everyone on these forums appreciates the wisdom DarkMaze has, because this really is how it is.

DarkMaze wrote:

PS really is an unusual case, and reading your post made that even clearer. Honestly, I was gonna suggest that you pitch that as an article for a film journal or something, because that would be a fascinating piece.

That's actually a good idea... Hmmm...

DarkMaze wrote:

No worries, Press Start isn't even a bomb financially. I'm very proud to say that it made back its budget, and that's an enormous step in the right direction. It has also opened up some new doors, and I hope to tell you all more about that very soon.

Sweet and Super Sweet.

Char Aznable wrote:

I don't consider myself a "filmmaker". I consider myself a "dude with a camera and pirated editing software". But this shit sure is fun! Maybe I ought to buy a new camera with the rest of my paycheck.

Hey, if you have a passion for it, I say keep it up. It might not be a career, but I wouldn't not consider yourself a filmmaker. Keep making videos and experimenting, because you never know what may come of it.