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So I have an issue that's gonna to drive me suicide (taxes)


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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Mar 22 2010 11:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ice2SeeYou wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
Well i did the Math and with an Unemployment rate of 9.7% as of 2009, and that equaling 14.9 million Americans leaving 138,708,248 Americans with Taxable employment (not including those who don't pay taxes.) and medicare spending of roughly 2.4 trillion again 2009 gives a figure of....$17,365.60 per American...ok yea that doesn't work...How the shit does Canada do it?!

Well for one, Canada doesn't have millions of illegal immigrants who join gangs, shoot each other and thus require emergency medical care.

lol yup, although i believe you are inflating the numbers too much (millions?!)

and unemployment doesnt count those illegal aliens who used a fake SSN to work originally. they dont qualify for unemployment, but they still dont have a job either.


Klimbatize wrote:
I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load

 
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 12:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

"Unenployment" <> "People collecting unemployment benefits". It means "people who are looking for work, and don't have a current full time job"

And sorry to go off on mega-rant twice, but really, BS stats piss me off. They're designed to get you all worked up, but when you think about them, they make perfect sense.

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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 12:36 am Reply with quote Back to top

Klimbatize wrote:
My response was to Dodd who said he didn't want to pay for health insurance because he had planned his life to never need it. It was a very interesting philosophy that I felt needed to be explored. If only we could all be so sure that we would never need health insurance.


First off, I never fucking said this. I said I'm not at a financial point in my life to do this. My last two jobs prior to this one, absolutely raped me as far as pay went and I almost was forced to work 3 jobs at the time, all starting at minimum wage, despite having a college degree. So roughly, I was maybe keeping $100 after bills (the apartment I lived in ate up about 4/5's of my paychecks), to pay for food and such. So unless I wanted to live on Ramon noodles so I could pay for health insurance. You aren't aware of my prior situations, so don't act like I'm some fucking naive person who wants help from other people, because that's the last thing I want.Secondly, when I'm in a better position in my life to afford insurance, I am more than willing to pay for it. Can shit happen? Yes! Will it? Could it? Yes, but that should be my problem, not yours, after all I'm not asking anyone for a handout in case I get flesh eating bacteria tomorrow. I'm all for Health Insurance once I have the priveledge of affording it. One thing I don't want is a socialized Health Care that benefits those it shouldn't more than those who should.

More or less, this goes back to the whole forcefully making me do something I don't want to do. Sound petty? Probably is. Too fucking bad! I don't care if it's pennies on the dollar I would have to pay depending on how shitty my income is, because it should be a choice, not an obligation. And honestly, while it'll never be the way I see it, that's how the American way should be.
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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 01:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
How the shit does Canada do it?!

We lose 50% of our paychecks in taxes (all kinds of insurances, health care, other random stuff I don't really know).
I don't know how much it is in the US, but you do, so tell me if that's high or not.

We'd probably pay less if our governments didn't suck ass for the last 10 years, both on the federal and especially provincial levels.
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
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PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 01:08 am Reply with quote Back to top

Dodd, your problem isn't that you don't choose to have it, it's that you can't afford it. This is part of the problem, sometimes employers offer insurance that is completely unaffordable.

Some of the "health insurance plans" that the jobs I've had offered were pretty much "bend over and take it". 70 bucks a week out of your check for the cheapest health plan is way too much when you only make 10 bucks an hour and aren't even full time every week. And this was a fucking government job...they're supposed to have good insurance!

And god fucking help you if you have a family...then you're paying about 250 a week to cover them.

As for this:
Quote:
More or less, this goes back to the whole forcefully making me do something I don't want to do. Sound petty? Probably is. Too fucking bad! I don't care if it's pennies on the dollar I would have to pay depending on how shitty my income is, because it should be a choice, not an obligation. And honestly, while it'll never be the way I see it, that's how the American way should be.

Bullshit. This isn't the "American way", it's the "dumbass clueless punk" way. Government and society imposes obligations upon people all the time, and you do have a choice: follow them, or suffer the consequences. Or maybe try another country out.

When your choices are affecting the people around you, then there's a problem. And as several people have stated already, your choice* to not have health insurance will become someone else's problem when something does happen to you, and you can't foot the bill.

*as I said above, it appears it's not so much your "choice" as your "only viable option" at this time. It's a hypothetical.

Quote:

We lose 50% of our paychecks in taxes (all kinds of insurances, health care, other random stuff I don't really know).
I don't know how much it is in the US, but you do, so tell me if that's high or not.

That's very high. Here in the States, depending on your income, we lose about 10-40% total depending on our income to things like Federal Income Tax, FICA (Social Security), and in some cases state taxes. I'm at about 20% or so total.

I've heard in some European countries it's even higher, and the upper rate actually reaches 100% in one or two countries.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 02:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Bullshit. This isn't the "American way", it's the "dumbass clueless punk" way. Government and society imposes obligations upon people all the time, and you do have a choice: follow them, or suffer the consequences. Or maybe try another country out.

When your choices are affecting the people around you, then there's a problem. And as several people have stated already, your choice* to not have health insurance will become someone else's problem when something does happen to you, and you can't foot the bill.

*as I said above, it appears it's not so much your "choice" as your "only viable option" at this time. It's a hypothetical.


Again, I'm not asking the government or anyone else to help. And it's not a clueless way, a clueless way is the idea that there is someone there to wipe your ass if something happens. I'm not saying we need to downright get rid of social programs. There is a need for some, but I believe we can benefit so much more by not allowing so much bullshit to go on. A lot of people don't seek out employment because there's a system already in place to take care of them. When you have more people who benefit from a system by those who are running it, it causes more problems. Setting more government programs in place only fucks things up even more IMO.
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Klimbatize
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Title: 2011 Picnic/Death Champ
Joined: Mar 15 2010
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PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 01:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dodd, you are proving my point. Health care should be made as affordable as possible because most people who don't have would like to have it but they simply can't afford it. We need to fix that because we are currently on a no-win path if the current system is kept uncheck. I hear a lot of people shitting on these health care changes, while offering no alternatives. Status quo is not acceptable.

Douche, you were a little confused about the costs. Let me explain. Let's say a health plan through your work costs you 50 bucks a week (200 a month)...that's not the total cost of the insurance policy. It could be anywhere between 500-1500 bucks total depending on the strength of the plan. I'm self-employed so I pay full price for my health insurance which is $1100 a month (for me, my wife, and son). That's about normal for a family plan, but often your employer pays a large percentage of that. When the economy goes down, jobs often cut benefits to save money, which in turn makes health insurance more expensive for families...which then often leads to them going without.

By regulating the health insurance agency (you'd be amazed how little regulation is set up here...they still have antitrust status), you could lower premiums drastically. By setting up a stronger max profit line, projections are premiums would go down by at least 30%. Likewise, when everyone is covered and preventative care is paid for, the cost-sharing goes down even more.

And I'm not a big fan of penalizing people who don't buy health insurance. Obama said himself while campaigning..."If that would work than why not just penalize the homeless for not buying a house." It's not practical because a lot of people don't have health insurance because they can't afford it.

And my previous statements that you seem to have taken offense to were in response to this...where you did say you are basically planning not to get hurt.

Doddsino wrote:
And yes, there is the chance that something could very well happen, but not very probable. I limit myself to where I go via car, and make wise decisions for the most part. I truly believe that the chance of something like that happening isn't enough for me to pay out of pocket, especially when I limit myself as much as I do right now. So yes, down the line I will get insurance, but given my position right now, where I hardly travel outside the home, eat healthy, exercise, there's no grizzly bears etc etc, I'd say my chances of ending up the emergency room are way too incredibly slim at this time.


Pretty much the greatest thread of all time: http://www.sydlexia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14789

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Douche McCallister
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PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 05:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yea I guess I left that part out of the equation my bad. The profit margins are ridiculous too, especially now with insurance companies basically telling an underwriter that the policy HAS to be profitable, as soon as Loss Ratio exceeds your Expense Ratio your basically dropped and you gotta shoparound. Which means they want policies that ONLY make money. One big claim regardless of how many years and you could be dropped in some cases. Or they just raise your rates so high that you can't afford to stay.

Believe me I don't mind getting my profit sharing bonus every year but it just seems so ridiculous. The thing is these companies need to have enough reserves to pay for claims, which can be a lot of money, especially with the price of medical procedures and technology that seem to never decrease.

A 20 minute check up to my Family doctor. $275 with a $20 co-pay. As stated earlier doctors should be paid for their services, but for fucks sake you just listened to my breathing tested my reflexes, looked in my ears and throat. Don't even get me started on the cost of staying in the hospital over night or a fucking ambulance ride.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 06:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Listening to your breathing is only 5% of your bill. The other 95% is what to listen for.

You're paying a doctor for their expertise, not their actions.
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Douche McCallister
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PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 07:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well how about charging that if they find something. People without insurance hate going to the doctor unless it's life or death. I use to be one of those people. "I don't feel good." " Well go to the doctor." "What if it's just a cold?" "Then your only out $300 and stuck with a cold." (Plus the prescription for an antibiotic or whatever.)


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Godofhardcore
Joined: Feb 22 2010
PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 09:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

All this bullshit will be repealed

best case scenario a 2nd civil war will break out
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
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PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 09:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Godofhardcore wrote:
I don't know what I'm saying, I just feel like saying something.
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Dr. Jeebus
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PostPosted: Mar 23 2010 11:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
Well how about charging that if they find something. People without insurance hate going to the doctor unless it's life or death. I use to be one of those people. "I don't feel good." " Well go to the doctor." "What if it's just a cold?" "Then your only out $300 and stuck with a cold." (Plus the prescription for an antibiotic or whatever.)

Only get charged for doctor visits if you're sick? So then hospitals will be flooded with people who AREN'T sick and AREN'T getting billed for being there tying up the doctor's time and the hospital's money? I really didn't think that was the sort of thing I'd ever have to explain.


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UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 12:02 am Reply with quote Back to top

Godofhardcore wrote:
best case scenario a 2nd civil war will break out


How would that work? If anything, if this even came close to fruition, you would see more people resigning from office. You'd be more likely to see a Revolution than a Civil War.
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Godofhardcore
Joined: Feb 22 2010
PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 01:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

Doddsino wrote:
Godofhardcore wrote:
best case scenario a 2nd civil war will break out


How would that work? If anything, if this even came close to fruition, you would see more people resigning from office. You'd be more likely to see a Revolution than a Civil War.


Conservatives are gun nuts..somebody's gonna die.

I don't know why this whole YOU MUST BUY INSURANCE OR ELSE bothers me, I'm insured.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 02:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

So you believe most conservatives are gun nuts? I grew up around a lot of conservative people in my life and not a single one of them had a gun. In fact a few of them actually protested against the 2nd Amendment.
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TheThunderThief
Joined: Jun 07 2009
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 03:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

Godofhardcore wrote:
Doddsino wrote:
Godofhardcore wrote:
best case scenario a 2nd civil war will break out


How would that work? If anything, if this even came close to fruition, you would see more people resigning from office. You'd be more likely to see a Revolution than a Civil War.


Conservatives are gun nuts..somebody's gonna die.
Yeah, I was totally loading up my mags while watching C-SPAN, just waiting for the signal: "The chair is against the wall, John has a large mustache" Rolling Eyes. Does your arm get sore, painting with such a broad brush?


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Godofhardcore
Joined: Feb 22 2010
PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 11:08 am Reply with quote Back to top

Which everside wins everyone loses When both sides are Weak I'll strike take over and turn the USA into the Republic of Westonia.

Not sure what will be on our Currancy, either NO YOU CAN'T or Not on my watch.
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Dr. Jeebus
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 01:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Godofhardcore wrote:
Which everside wins everyone loses When both sides are Weak I'll strike take over and turn the USA into the Republic of Westonia.

Not sure what will be on our Currancy, either NO YOU CAN'T or Not on my watch.

Punctuation FTW. Also, could you have picked a more trite quote to open with?


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UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 04:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Godofhardcore wrote:
Which everside wins everyone loses When both sides are Weak I'll strike take over and turn the USA into the Republic of Westonia.

Not sure what will be on our Currancy, either NO YOU CAN'T or Not on my watch.

That's three things in a row in this thread you'd said that are just mindless babble.

You know, if you don't have anything intelligent to say, you don't have to say anything.
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Douche McCallister
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 05:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
Well how about charging that if they find something. People without insurance hate going to the doctor unless it's life or death. I use to be one of those people. "I don't feel good." " Well go to the doctor." "What if it's just a cold?" "Then your only out $300 and stuck with a cold." (Plus the prescription for an antibiotic or whatever.)

Only get charged for doctor visits if you're sick? So then hospitals will be flooded with people who AREN'T sick and AREN'T getting billed for being there tying up the doctor's time and the hospital's money? I really didn't think that was the sort of thing I'd ever have to explain.

Rolling Eyes Where in that quote did I say it should be free if your not sick?


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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 06:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When I went to see the doctor for why I coughed all the time, she examined me, then gave me a prescription for three different medicaments/drugs/some stupid word I forgot.
Cost : 8$

Well, at least those taxes we pay are actually useful, though I don't need medication all that often...
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Dr. Jeebus
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 07:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Douche McCallister wrote:
Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Douche McCallister wrote:
Well how about charging that if they find something. People without insurance hate going to the doctor unless it's life or death. I use to be one of those people. "I don't feel good." " Well go to the doctor." "What if it's just a cold?" "Then your only out $300 and stuck with a cold." (Plus the prescription for an antibiotic or whatever.)

Only get charged for doctor visits if you're sick? So then hospitals will be flooded with people who AREN'T sick and AREN'T getting billed for being there tying up the doctor's time and the hospital's money? I really didn't think that was the sort of thing I'd ever have to explain.

Rolling Eyes Where in that quote did I say it should be free if your not sick?

You bitched that you have to pay $300 to have a doctor listen to you breath for 20 minutes and do nothing else. Usa explained that 5% of that charge is them listening and 95% is what to listen for. You then said how about charging that if they find something, meaning only charging the other 95% if they actually find something. You didn't say the exact words, but there's really no other way to take it from context. Perhaps you didn't use the word free, but the implication is still the same, and it's moronic.


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UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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Douche McCallister
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 08:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'll be the bigger person and say your an asshole.


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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
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PostPosted: Mar 24 2010 08:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Jesus H. Christ... Rolling Eyes


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