erock wrote:

If you want g1 then just watch g1. why would the public want to see something hey have already seen.

Sequels? I didn't like the movie? Do you think I should have? I think I have legit reasons not to like it. I'm not saying nobody else should. I just think I have the right to complain about it the same as anybody else who complains about movies.

username wrote:

Members of the Russian Communist party have called for the new Indiana Jones film to be banned in the country because they say it distorts history. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7418727.stm

That's like saying the Buddy Holly Story should be banned because its not historically accurate.

ReeperTheSeeker wrote:

scamrock wrote: Well, I'm not saying Transformers was a bad movie in and of itself. But the best way I have been able to describe it is that it was made for acquaintances of the franchise, not for friends of the franchise. I know its not G1, so it doesn't have to follow any predetermined story or anything like that. A big problem for me is that I knew when it was announced that I wouldn't like it. I knew that it was going to be a story about humans and the way they cope with a world invaded by alien robots. In a cartoon, you have the option of making the actual robots the main characters. This won't happen when you bring real people into the fold. ( Voltron would have been better suited for this since people are actually the main characters. Not that I am suggesting they should make a live action Voltron movie. ) -It's in the works right now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltron#Film_adaptation My biggest problem is that it feels like the business end took priority. It felt like Michael Bay was more worried about appealing to the main stream masses at the expense of the already established fanbase rather than trying to appeal to the people I feel he should have been making the movie for. I know plenty of people who grew up transformers and love Bay's movie. That's fine. I don't have a problem with others liking it or not. And like I said, in and of itself, its not awful. But I do feel cheated. Just like they shouldn't be forcing sequels to 80's movies (like Indy), old tv shows, and old cartoons. Most of these seem to be made with the intention of hijacking an already established name to maximize exposure for a Hollywood blockbuster where the business end takes priority over the artistic end. erock wrote: everyone's rant about michael bay is that all hes about is explosions and effects. well if giant robots start wreaking shit in my town im gonna bet a few bucks some stuff is gonna explode and shit is gonna get broke. did you expect that they would settle arguments over a game of bridge and some tea? giant robots with lasers + evil giant robots with lasers = explosions. at least they got a director with experience in said explosions. I don't have a problem with the explosion and the special effects. I expect it. I just prefer an animated cartoon as opposed to live action with lots of CGI. I would have also have liked to see if follow G1 story a little more closely, becasue they way I see it, the story they used, you could take out transformers and plug in any alien invading shapeshifting robots. I dunno, I'm probably just being picky. But for me, 1986 move > this movie. A-freaking-men!!!!!!!!!! I guess I'd rather just see a true sequel to the G1 series rather than somebody rewriting the story. As for your comment on hollywood reviving old stuff from the 1980s i've come to the conclusion that hollywood is out of ideas, it's going through a creative-block phase and hopefully snap out of it soon and the people that grew up with these franchises are older now . . . with their own money. They are no longer spending their parents money now but their own and hollywood knows they want nostalgia and hollywood wants their money. There is no artistic merit in reviving the old 1980s stuff because it's been an evil plot for money from the start.

This is pretty much how I feel. Most of these "remakes" are garbage. I'll admit Transformers was awesome in comparison with most of the others. But it still feels hijacked to me. For me, when you change something too much, you start aiming for a new target audience. For example, none of my friends who were huge Transformer fans groing up really liked the movie. I had friends who weren't that big of fans growing up, but then pretended to be when the movie was coming out that loved it. And I almost expected them to because they love all of the mainstream blockbusters more than anything else.

Now they're doing it with Alvin and the Chipmunks, Speed Racer, etc. And even though both are most likely complete garbage, my same friends who pretended to be excited when Transformers was coming out (who in reality didn't really watch it as a kid and didn't know what we were talking about when we were discussing the cartoons), acted excited about this crap. Like it was cool for them to get excited about nostalgic stuff. Even though I know they probably never even watched a single episode of Speed Racer.

I just wish they would keep coming out with their own movies rather than trying to squeeze the lemon of past generations movies. I've even heard rumors of a new Fletch movie without Chevy Chase and a new Beverly Hills Cop. Let it go.

Blackout Boy wrote:

scamrock wrote: ReeperTheSeeker wrote: scamrock wrote: Well, I'm not saying Transformers was a bad movie in and of itself. But the best way I have been able to describe it is that it was made for acquaintances of the franchise, not for friends of the franchise. I know its not G1, so it doesn't have to follow any predetermined story or anything like that. A big problem for me is that I knew when it was announced that I wouldn't like it. I knew that it was going to be a story about humans and the way they cope with a world invaded by alien robots. In a cartoon, you have the option of making the actual robots the main characters. This won't happen when you bring real people into the fold. ( Voltron would have been better suited for this since people are actually the main characters. Not that I am suggesting they should make a live action Voltron movie. ) -It's in the works right now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltron#Film_adaptation My biggest problem is that it feels like the business end took priority. It felt like Michael Bay was more worried about appealing to the main stream masses at the expense of the already established fanbase rather than trying to appeal to the people I feel he should have been making the movie for. I know plenty of people who grew up transformers and love Bay's movie. That's fine. I don't have a problem with others liking it or not. And like I said, in and of itself, its not awful. But I do feel cheated. Just like they shouldn't be forcing sequels to 80's movies (like Indy), old tv shows, and old cartoons. Most of these seem to be made with the intention of hijacking an already established name to maximize exposure for a Hollywood blockbuster where the business end takes priority over the artistic end. erock wrote: everyone's rant about michael bay is that all hes about is explosions and effects. well if giant robots start wreaking shit in my town im gonna bet a few bucks some stuff is gonna explode and shit is gonna get broke. did you expect that they would settle arguments over a game of bridge and some tea? giant robots with lasers + evil giant robots with lasers = explosions. at least they got a director with experience in said explosions. I don't have a problem with the explosion and the special effects. I expect it. I just prefer an animated cartoon as opposed to live action with lots of CGI. I would have also have liked to see if follow G1 story a little more closely, becasue they way I see it, the story they used, you could take out transformers and plug in any alien invading shapeshifting robots. I dunno, I'm probably just being picky. But for me, 1986 move > this movie. A-freaking-men!!!!!!!!!! I guess I'd rather just see a true sequel to the G1 series rather than somebody rewriting the story. As for your comment on hollywood reviving old stuff from the 1980s i've come to the conclusion that hollywood is out of ideas, it's going through a creative-block phase and hopefully snap out of it soon and the people that grew up with these franchises are older now . . . with their own money. They are no longer spending their parents money now but their own and hollywood knows they want nostalgia and hollywood wants their money. There is no artistic merit in reviving the old 1980s stuff because it's been an evil plot for money from the start. This is pretty much how I feel. Most of these "remakes" are garbage. I'll admit Transformers was awesome in comparison with most of the others. But it still feels hijacked to me. For me, when you change something too much, you start aiming for a new target audience. For example, none of my friends who were huge Transformer fans groing up really liked the movie. I had friends who weren't that big of fans growing up, but then pretended to be when the movie was coming out that loved it. And I almost expected them to because they love all of the mainstream blockbusters more than anything else. Now they're doing it with Alvin and the Chipmunks, Speed Racer, etc. And even though both are most likely complete garbage, my same friends who pretended to be excited when Transformers was coming out (who in reality didn't really watch it as a kid and didn't know what we were talking about when we were discussing the cartoons), acted excited about this crap. Like it was cool for them to get excited about nostalgic stuff. Even though I know they probably never even watched a single episode of Speed Racer. I just wish they would keep coming out with their own movies rather than trying to squeeze the lemon of past generations movies. I've even heard rumors of a new Fletch movie without Chevy Chase and a new Beverly Hills Cop. Let it go. I can udnerstand being nostalgic about Transformers, and wont knock having fond memories of speed racer, but who the fuck ever liked Alvin and the Chipmunks?

Aw c'mon. If you didn't watch Alvin, you watched something similar. Nobody went straight from Sesame Street to GI Joe. Well, maybe I did, but I other more kiddy stuff too.

erock wrote:

sequels is a bad argument. look at indy. its completely diff from the others. or the diff from the first rambo to all the others. all im saying is all the transformers fanboys rant is that it was so different from the original. so? ive seen the original. in the words of cleese and now fo rsomething completely different.

I don't think there is a such thing as a bad argument when it comes to personal opinion. I don't like it. I have my reasons. It doesn't matter if anybody else thinks the reasons are valid or not. But I think a lot of the reason why fanboys complain is because the movie wasn't made for them and they feel like they should have been the target audience. That's sort of how I feel. But at the same time, I can't blame him for making it.

ReeperTheSeeker wrote:

I just saw these, Spoony gives his rant on Indy and the crystal skull He basically has stated what will be the universal reason why people don't care for this movie. I will agree that hollywood should stop with the remakes but Spoony makes a good point about erging people not to see the movie, the only way these remakes are going to stop is if people stop going to them . . . which is never going to happen. I still think the shot with indy and the mushroom cloud was badass . . . pointless but screenshot worthy.

I didn't watch these yet. But a good solution, since people will still want to watch it if only for completeness of the series, is for people to try to avoid it until it comes out on DVD, or go see it if you absolutely must. Then when its out on DVD only rent it. Nobody buy it. If you want it that bad, burn it.

Unfortunately, there will always be a market for this kind of stuff. Go to IMDB and pick out any of your favorite old movies. To to the message board. There is always some joker wanting a remake. And if it is a comedy, there is always somebody who wants it remade with Vince Vaughn, Owen Wilson, and the rest of that crew.

erock wrote:

scamrock wrote: erock wrote: sequels is a bad argument. look at indy. its completely diff from the others. or the diff from the first rambo to all the others. all im saying is all the transformers fanboys rant is that it was so different from the original. so? ive seen the original. in the words of cleese and now fo rsomething completely different. I don't think there is a such thing as a bad argument when it comes to personal opinion. I don't like it. I have my reasons. It doesn't matter if anybody else thinks the reasons are valid or not. But I think a lot of the reason why fanboys complain is because the movie wasn't made for them and they feel like they should have been the target audience. That's sort of how I feel. But at the same time, I can't blame him for making it. exept you brought up sequels as a be all end all argument as things that are the same. all you said was sequels which is a preety weak argument. i state people dont wanna watch what they have seen. you state "sequels?" as some sort of universal blanket. which is pretty weak..

I wasn't using sequels as be all end all. You said why would somebody see something they have already seen (which they do all of the time). So I was just offering up a sequel as a substitute.

I don't think its weak that I feel like they hijacked the movie. It seemed like they changed it, as much as they could, from the original. I mean it almost looks like they had the script and shopped it and the movie execs said, "if you make those robots Transformers, we'll buy it", then didn't change anything to fit Transformers except the fact that they can turn into cars, trucks, and whatnot. That is how it feels to me. I can almost see one person saying, "these changes are going to piss off a lot of the fans of the series" and somebody else saying, "fuck the fans of the original series."

Maybe how I feel is justified, maybe not. But I don't think its a weak reason not to like it.

I'm just wondering, if you don't mind, where you stand with the series. Were you a hardcore fan of the series, a casual fan who watched the cartoons sometimes, or somebody who rarely/never watched?

It really doesn't matter one way or another, because I have talked to plenty of people who were fans of the series who liked the movie. But for the most part, a lot people I talked to that were big fans of the series seem to share my feelings toward it. So its not like I'm the only one who feels this way.

erock wrote:

i watched it when it was on and i collected my share of toys. btw as a substitute for what? even sequels are different and generally remakes are also pretty different.

I was trying to make the point that I thought the movie differed too much from G1. I was using G1 because its the most popular of the series and the one most people are familier with. It just seems like the logical thing to do would be to do the remake based on G1.

You alluded to the fact that people have already experienced G1, so why would they base it on G1.

I was offering up the idea of a sequel as an alternate to ramaking the aspects of G1 people have already seen. I wasn't necessarily saying they should have made it a sequel.

At any rate, that wasn't meant to be a complaint. I think I covered most of my complaints, one of which was the fact that the title characters were pretty much just reduced to supporting cast. I prefer them as main characters, like in the cartoon. And when you have real actors as the humans, and special effects to represent the autobots, I knew going in that the people would be center stage. And while its a unique take on things, it might not have bothered me as much if they wouldn't have abandoned any already established storylines. But all of it adds up to frustration for me. So like I said. I feel like I have every reason to be disappointed.

lordsathien wrote:

To quote a friend of mine: "The first movie proved Judaism is right, the second movie proved Hinduism is right, the third movie proved Christianity is right, but the fourth movie proves Scientology is right."

I always wondered about that too. Were we ever given an expanation from Lucas or anybody else?