SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

sock, ever ehard of somethign called "muscle milk?" also, ever heard of "NO-EXPLODE?"

Joined: Jul 16 2006 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 324

Sock wrote:

What benefits does training without weights have, Avian? I'm not disputing it, because I know it works, I'm just curious.

I come from the world of free weights, where everything can be fixed by hard work, proper form, and protein. So, forgive my ignorance.

Don't get me wrong, free weights definitely have their place and can provide great benefits to a lot of different types of athletes. Football players, for example, can typically benefit from the raw strength and bulk that weight training can provide.

In the case of grappling, however, I have found that bodyweight training works the best because it trains the stabilizer muscles in ways that regular weight training does not. Training with weights is, if you think about it, providing you with strength in an "ideal" situation. They may be heavy, but it's actually quite easy to utilize all of your strength during a bench press, deadlift or a squat because they are simple, efficient movements. When it comes to grappling, you're hardly ever going to be using your strength in an "ideal" situation. You're almost always off balance, pushing at an awkward angle, etc. This is why training stabilizer muscles is so important. It allows you to be strong while in a weak position.

One bodyweight exercise I particularly like is to do pushups with your hands on top of a pair of mini-medicine balls. Since the balls are unsteady, you are forced to concentrate on your balance as well as the reps, which in turn develops core strength, balance and trains the stabilizer muscles.

Joined: Jul 16 2006 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 324

JEW wrote:

sock, ever ehard of somethign called "muscle milk?" also, ever heard of "NO-EXPLODE?"

Personally I feel that muscle milk is a little too high in sugar. Although it does taste great.

I've also felt that vaso-diolaters such as NO-Explode are overhyped. I have limited experience with them myself, but from what I've heard, they provide temporary results that don't make them worth the price. Some people do swear by them though, so if you want to give it a shot, it's up to you.

Posted: Mar 19 2007 11:59 pm

DRINK NO-EXPLODE, JERK OFF!!!

Posted: Mar 20 2007 12:09 am

JEW wrote:

sock, ever ehard of somethign called "muscle milk?" also, ever heard of "NO-EXPLODE?"

NO! Don't use any suppliments other than protein and BCAAs. There's no quick way to get strong, it takes time, and work. The quickest way to get strong, is too keep lifting.

And Avian, that's kinda what I figured, get your muscles used to being in a variety of situations, as opposed to the same twenty~some static lifts most free weight trainers do.

Title: Nothing Special Joined: Oct 25 2006 Posts: 396

I'm just looking to lose weight, but I recall someone here saying that certain weight training is needed so they don't just look like a smaller version of their fat self.

Sock, got any pointers for me along those lines?

Posted: Mar 20 2007 01:16 am

Weight training is irrelevant to losing weight. And if you are really overweight, it's in your best interest to not even start lifting until you lose weight.

I'm not really into nutrition, though, so I don't have any advice other than watch what you eat, and do cardio. I lost forty pounds in two months, doing an hour cardio five days a week, and sticking to a diet of fish and greens. It sucked, but I needed to drop weight fast for the winter hockey season. I really don't know what's for you though. Diet and nutrition ain't my thing, sorry man.

Posted: Mar 20 2007 07:22 am

Sock, weight training isn't irrelevant to losing weight, trust me. If you combine it with cardio it's extremely good.

Posted: Mar 20 2007 11:52 am

This argument of weights vs. cardio is silly anyway... it's a very complicated argument. Though it's true that you're more likely to lose weight doing cardio OR cardio + weights then just weights, it's not impossible... the big questions is HOW MUCH of each are you doing? If you're weight training daily for 2 hours, or taking things like glutamine or ISOflex on the side, you're gonna lose the fat and gain the muscle, so you'll inevitably weigh more. Because muscle is heavier than fat.
I'd say everyone on here thus far is right about their point to a certain extent.

Posted: Mar 20 2007 12:40 pm

that logic is flawed because no fat person is gonne have more muscle in place of the fat they lost. the odds are if you need to lose weight from doing cardio and weights, you're gonna end up much leaner overall, even if the muscle weighs more you'll probably weigh less.

Also, that's in one specific example of having to make the weight for a sport. most people could care less what they weigh as long as they're fit and feel good

Posted: Mar 20 2007 12:56 pm

If you're a bit chunky, and you want to get stronger, yeah, lose weight and weight train at the same time. But if you have a really high body fat percentage, like 30~35%+, it's in your best interest to lose weight, then pick up the iron.

Weight training isn't cardio, it's not used to lose weight, it has nothing to do with losing weight. The argument of weight training vs. cardio isn't "complicated", it doesn't exist, they're two different things, they accomplish two completely different things.

And how long you weight train has no impact on how strong you get. You can lift for two hours three days a week, and not make as much as progress as the guy lifting for forty minutes a day twice a week. The only way you'll be lifting two hours a day is if you're doing a high volume routine, which, for 90% of people, isn't the routine you should be doing.

Posted: Mar 20 2007 03:03 pm

Murdar Machene wrote:

that logic is flawed because no fat person is gonne have more muscle in place of the fat they lost...

I suppose my logic would be flawed had I said that. But, I never said that there'd be more muscle in place, only that muscle does weigh more than fat. I never said you'd replace fat with muscle in the exact amounts....

Also, lifting weights can cause one to lose weight, but it would probably take a whole lot longer than it would doing cardio.

Posted: Mar 20 2007 04:50 pm

Murdar Machene wrote:

that logic is flawed because no fat person is gonne have more muscle in place of the fat they lost. the odds are if you need to lose weight from doing cardio and weights, you're gonna end up much leaner overall, even if the muscle weighs more you'll probably weigh less.

What does "lean" mean? Thin? You don't need to weight train to be thin.

Tishwitch wrote:

Murdar Machene wrote:

that logic is flawed because no fat person is gonne have more muscle in place of the fat they lost...

I suppose my logic would be flawed had I said that. But, I never said that there'd be more muscle in place, only that muscle does weigh more than fat. I never said you'd replace fat with muscle in the exact amounts....

Also, lifting weights can cause one to lose weight, but it would probably take a whole lot longer than it would doing cardio.

Your muscles would give out before you got your heart rate up high enough, unless you're working with like 20% of your one rep max. Which is completely pointless.

They don't go hand-in-hand, they're different things. They do different things. They can't be combined. You're not going to build any significant amount of muscle doing just cardio, and you're not going to burn a significant amount of calories, or get your heart rate up for a sustained period of time while just weight training.

Posted: Mar 20 2007 06:53 pm

While you are true about not getting your heart rate up, Sock, you will eventually lose weight from only doing weight training as increased muscle mass increases your metabolism. Sure that's useless if your goal is to lose weight since you need to get your heart rate up to 120 for 30-45 minutes a day, but eventually it will work. The key is just eventually.

Joined: Jul 16 2006 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Posts: 324

People underestimate the importance of diet.

No matter what your goals are, if you don't eat right, you won't make nearly as much progress. Gaining muscle, losing fat, whatever........diet is a huge part.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

i only ask about the muscle milk because it's supposed to have protein in it, and i dont even know what the no explode is, thjats why i askeed.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

Syd Lexia wrote:

DRINK NO-EXPLODE, JERK OFF!!!

WHAN I NEED TO TOUGHEN UP I GET BACK TO BASICS! DRINK YJ STINGER!

Posted: Mar 20 2007 11:34 pm

Dr. Jeebus wrote:

While you are true about not getting your heart rate up, Sock, you will eventually lose weight from only doing weight training as increased muscle mass increases your metabolism. Sure that's useless if your goal is to lose weight since you need to get your heart rate up to 120 for 30-45 minutes a day, but eventually it will work. The key is just eventually.

You'll gain muscle mass from running, but the amount is so negligible (compared to weight training), it's not even worth mentioning. Same for using weight training to lose weight. The amount of calories burnt while lifting are so small, it's not worth mentioning.

Avian wrote:

People underestimate the importance of diet.

No matter what your goals are, if you don't eat right, you won't make nearly as much progress. Gaining muscle, losing fat, whatever........diet is a huge part.

If you're just a casual lifter, you can make good gains with proper protein intake, and avoiding greasy, or fatty foods. You don't have to radically change your diet to get strong. Just watch what you eat. But, if you want to get the best results, or you're serious about anything physical, diet is very important.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

i just found out that my ankle is broken, so the loswer body stuff in my lifting regimen would prolly be a bad idea to start right now, but i culd still do yhe upper half, right?
maybe i could do tat three tomes a week instyead of alternating for now?

Posted: Mar 25 2007 11:58 am

Sock wrote:

What does "lean" mean? Thin? You don't need to weight train to be thin.

I meant body fat percentage. The term lean indicates a lack of fat.

From dictionary.com:

"The part of flesh that consists of muscle rather than fat". Like Jeebus said, building of muscle causes improved metabolism, thus you lose fat. I.E., you get "leaner". We clear?

Posted: Mar 25 2007 02:55 pm

JEW wrote:

i just found out that my ankle is broken, so the loswer body stuff in my lifting regimen would prolly be a bad idea to start right now, but i culd still do yhe upper half, right?
maybe i could do tat three tomes a week instyead of alternating for now?

Yeah, you can just work your upper body, but for behind neck presses, and military presses, sit on the bench and do them, don't stand up and do them.

As for doing just upper body Mon. Tues. and Wed, don't do it. Do it Tues. and Fri. instead. If you're doing upper body three days a week, you're not going to give your body enough time to grow. And how's your recovery time? Will your body let you work your upper body Tues and Fri. without fatiguing your muscles? Find out. If not, let me know, and I'll set you up with a two day a week upper boy routine.

Posted: Mar 25 2007 03:14 pm

Once we get the money to move to that place we're looking at outside Chicago, that'll be great because I should be able to play DDR AND they have a built-in 24-hour fitness center of some sort, so that'll really kickass.

I was told that if you do a lot of weight training, you need to do some cardio as well or you'll end up weakened your heart. My Uncle Steve (a phys ed major in college) told me this and my band teacher was a track athlete but ended up having major heart surgery because she didn't really do any cardio before/after weight training.

2010 SLF Tag Champ Joined: Jun 07 2006 Posts: 12294

Sock wrote:

JEW wrote:

i just found out that my ankle is broken, so the loswer body stuff in my lifting regimen would prolly be a bad idea to start right now, but i culd still do yhe upper half, right?
maybe i could do tat three tomes a week instyead of alternating for now?

Yeah, you can just work your upper body, but for behind neck presses, and military presses, sit on the bench and do them, don't stand up and do them.

As for doing just upper body Mon. Tues. and Wed, don't do it. Do it Tues. and Fri. instead. If you're doing upper body three days a week, you're not going to give your body enough time to grow. And how's your recovery time? Will your body let you work your upper body Tues and Fri. without fatiguing your muscles? Find out. If not, let me know, and I'll set you up with a two day a week upper boy routine.

will do. I'll let you know.

Posted: Mar 25 2007 04:35 pm

Rycona, why can't you play DDR in Chicago??? Confused

Joined: Mar 24 2007 Posts: 74

This discussion is a little bit ironic; I occasionally train BJJ, and have several friends that do BJJ all the time. (Purple or even brown belt caliber guys)

That being said, they all do a LOT of weight-training. (I don't tailor my own exercise regime to BJJ, but I work with mostly weights also) In fact, they do a lot more weight-training than most athletes, since strength is so important to them.

Obviously, if you're a serious, competitive submisson fighter who regularly competes in tournaments and cuts massive weight, this is far from absolute, since cutting muscle is an exceedingly difficult and painful task.

On the other hand, there are a lot of non-heavyweight boxers (even pros) who haven't touched weights in years. I used to box for two years in high school, and the amount of weight-training there was very limited, not only because of the greater number of weight classes, but also because pure strength isn't as important as it is in grappling.

That being said, I was a complete dumbass with regards to exercise for many years; I used to try to exercise about 5-6 times a week regularly, which is just about the dumbest fucking thing you can do if you want to build muscle and gain weight, and aren't training for some big fight.