Doddsino wrote:

Black Zarak wrote: Qui Gon was supposedly the first of the "modern" era Jedi to discover how to project as a force ghost and apparently it took him some time to manage it. And even being dead and semi omnipotent wouldn't have showed him who the Sith lord was or shown him the future of Anakin's fate, doesn't really work like that. Sidious' influence was dampening every Jedi's connection to the Force within an undefined but certainly wide range as well, it wasn't just a case of looking at it from another angle and seeing an obvious answer. I don't see why not? If Obi Wan was able to follow Luke around, surely Qui Gon could have done the same to Palpatine or any major players who could be considered a Sith, unless you try to shoehorn the idea that Palpatine was so fucking powerful that he was secretly controlling everyone's thoughts and actions. The timing of Qui Gon's transformation is way too convenient to the plot, and only serves as a plot device for the later films, this should've been established in the 2nd movie, so that it would've made sense when Anakin shows up at the end of Jedi. But to be honest, I really don't give a fuck. It's simple things like this that the audience is never told about, and are just left to assume the best, for convenience. The prequels were terrible, I could be here all day explaining shit, and someone would come along and talk about how things were "explained" off screen or in the EU. No one wins.

My take is that Palpatine (and the Sith for that matter) can cloud the force. Not only were the Jedi unable to foresee things as well but Windu mentioned in Episode III that the Jedi's abilities were reduced as a whole. Why would this not affect dead Jedi? Their ability to go on as spiritual "advisers" stems from the force. Why can't Palpatine's ability to cloud it also include every aspect of the force?

Palpatine's ability to use the force to control a lot of different things is hinted at in Jedi. Note that the Imperial Fleet doesn't start falling apart until after he is killed (if I remember correctly). Sure this ties in well with the three story lines happening all at once but it also leaves open the possibility that Palpatine was using the force to control his military, which is why it ran like a well oiled machine until that point. To be honest, the EU explains this more (that Palpatine was creating clones of himself that he could pass his conscience to in order to live "forever" and that his end goal was to literally control every last being in the galaxy and probably beyond) and I don't blame you for not giving a shit.

But to be honest the whole Palpatine is the evil guy is so obvious that any idiot should have been able to see it.

Doddsino wrote:

He eventually leaves having not completed his training, and when he returned in Jedi, Yoda tells him he didn't need to come back. What the fuck?

Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't think he was ready to face the truth, the training was preparing him mentally and physically for facing his father. However after facing Vader and realizing the truth, he came back resolved to bring him back from the dark side. Neither Yoda or Obi-Wan could foresee if Luke was going to come back from Bespin and they were probably holding out as long as they could before finally telling him the truth and telling him to face Vader. I'm sure his ability to see that Leia is his sister only confirmed their belief that he was ready.

Doddsino wrote:

I would think that the revelation would actually diminish Luke's faith in the Force, since Obi Wan wasn't upfront with him about such things, setting Luke up to become an insecure short tempered child, like his father was in the prequels.

Welcome to the hybrid Greek tragedy. Father falls, son follows precisely in his footsteps, only this time, the son is better. Luke did not grow up with the belief that he was all powerful, he was a simple farmer. The separate paths they took growing up had a lot to do with it.

Doddsino wrote:

Also while we're on the subject matter, if we want to look at the prequels for anything, why the hell would Palpatine rescue Vader after he was severely burned? It's pretty clear that Palpatine has control of the Senate by the end of the third movie and is absolute ruler. Did he need Vader to be his lapdog or something? It's pretty clear that Palpatine's darkside was vastly superior to the good, and Anakin never really proved himself, outside of saving Palpatine. But even in that case, Palpatine didn't really need Vader after that, in fact it would make more sense to kill Anakin and let him take the fall for killing the Jedis in the temple. What these movies basically tell me in the end is that Vader was nothing more than muscle who was tricked to the dark side, then he basically betrayed the only friend he had left at the end of Jedi to save his son he never knew.

For this I think of Dune. If you are familiar with the book, consider how Baron Harkonnen was going to use his nephew Rabban as a brutal ruler over Arrakis until he could put Feyd in charge as a more compassionate ruler in the locals eyes. If you are not familiar with Dune: Palpatine was using Vader as his attack dog so the people of the galaxy would come to see Vader as the person to hate even though he was only doing Palpatine's bidding. The most powerful person in that universe turns out to be a patsy. At the end of Jedi Luke is willing to sacrifice himself to save his own soul. He is willing to give up everything, his power, his friends, and even his own dignity in the end, to prove that one's own will can over power even the mightiest of temptations. Anakin used his power arrogantly, once he saw that his son was willing to give it all up to not be turned, Anakin saw the error. Beyond just realizing that he can't watch his own flesh be tortured.