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Why doesn't the Wii get Xbox 360 and PS3 ports?


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DarknessDeku
Title: Deku Scrub
Joined: Dec 08 2007
Location: The Forest
PostPosted: Feb 06 2009 08:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The Wii has awesome games, but why is it if a game gets ported to multiple systems, the Wii gets an alternate version?

For example, Skate came out on the 360 and PS3, the Wii got nothing. Skate 2 came out for the 360 and PS3, and the Wii got Skate It. Sometimes the alternate game doesn't even follow the same genre. Everybody gets a Soul Calibur fighting game, but the Wii version is action adventure.

It can understand alternate versions for handhelds, but for the Wii? This is why the Wii gets stupid 3rd party stuff.


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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 06 2009 08:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Because third party developers are lazy, assholes, or a combination of the two.

The two biggest excuses tend to be:

1. It's hard to adapt controls for the Wii
2. The system is underpowered

The control scheme is complete bullshit, as the Wii has both GCN controller support and a Classic Controller. The underpowered excuse is also pretty weak as well, though somewhat more legitimate.

But let's look at the Wii. It's the best selling system of this generation by a huge margin. Logic dictates that the big developers should be beating down Nintendo's door to release A List titles on the system. But they're not. And Nintendo isn't courting them. Sony and Microsoft throw shitloads of money at companies like Capcom and Konami for exclusive games, while Nintendo simply doesn't care. Another issue is that the big developers are sissy little crybaby losers and they are still mad at Nintendo over some of the stuff they pulled during the NES era. You know, 20 years ago. WAAAAAH, Nintendo censored our game. WAAAAAH, Nintendo made us sign a deal so we couldn't release Mega Man on the Sega Master System. Grow up, already.
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Knyte
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PostPosted: Feb 06 2009 10:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
Because third party developers are lazy, assholes, or a combination of the two.

The two biggest excuses tend to be:

1. It's hard to adapt controls for the Wii
2. The system is underpowered


I agree with #2. It's my same arguement I have with the DS. (Just replace "touch" with "motion") Just because it has touch controls doesn't mean you have to use them.

Well, lets look at #1 from a technical standpoint and see if holds any merit:

WII:
Processors:

CPU: PowerPC-based "Broadway" processor, made with a 90 nm SOI CMOS process, clocked at 729 MHz

GPU: ATI "Hollywood" GPU made with a 90 nm CMOS process, clocked at 243 MHz.

Memory:

88 MB main memory (24 MB "internal" 1T-SRAM integrated into graphics package, 64 MB "external" GDDR3 SDRAM)
3 MB embedded GPU texture memory and framebuffer.

Xbox 360

Processors:

CPU: "Xenon" - triple-core PowerPC-based, made with a 65 nm process SOI, clocked at 3.2GHz per core.Peak performance of 115.2 gigaflops and is capable of 9.6 billion dot products per second.

GPU: ATI "Xenos" GPU package contains two separate silicon dies, each on a 90 nm chip with a clock speed of 500 MHz; the GPU proper, manufactured by TSMC and a 10 MB eDRAM daughter-die, manufactured by NEC.

Memory:

512 MB of GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700MHz with an effective transmission rate of 1.4 GHz on a 128-bit bus.The memory is shared by the CPU and the GPU via the unified memory architecture.

PS3:
Processors:

CPU: "Cell" processor, utilizing seven of the eight "synergistic processing elements" running at 3.2 GHz.

GPU: "RSX" Nvidia based, 550 MHz on 65 nm process for current models.

The floating point performance of the whole system (CPU + GPU) is reported to be 2 TFLOPS.

Memory:

The PlayStation 3 has 256 MB of XDR main memory and 256 MB of GDDR3 video memory for the RSX.


Right away, even if you don't know computers, you can see a few gaps inbetween the Wii and the other two:

1. CPUs. Wii's single core CPU runs at 729 MHz. The X360's is using the same PowerPC instruction set architecture as the Wii's, but has 3 cores, each running at 3.2GHz. So processing power broken down in simplest terms would be:

Wii = 729 MHz CPU processing power vs X360 = 9800MHz CPU processing power.
The PS3's "Cell" is a completely different architecture, and is hard to make a apples to apples comparison, so we won't include it here.

2. Graphics. Again, let's just focus on Wii vs X360 since, again, they are using very similar GPUs. Both were made and developed byATI around the same time. Logic suggests that they are more than likely built around the same architecture, though, this cannot be confirmed, because Nintendo refuses to disclose many details regarding the Wii's "Hollywood" chip.

Wii's "Hollywood" runs at 243 MHz and has access to 64 MB of GDDR3 SDRAM.

The X360's "Xenos" runs at 500MHz and has access to 512 MB of GDDR3 SDRAM. (Though, since this is shared between CPU and GPU, it will never use it all at one time.)

PS3's "RSX" runs at 550 MHz and has access to 256 MB of GDDR3 SDRAM.

Again, the Wii falls short.

Conclusion:

I believe "The system is underpowered" is a fair statement in regards towards X360 and PS3.

Also, interesting to note. Whenever possible, developers prefer to port a PS2 version of a game over to the Wii, has it is far easier and less time consuming to do. So, that tells us, that perhaps the Wii is closer in power and ability to the PS2 then the X360 and PS3.

Nintendo never said they were going head to head with the others this generation. They went thier own way, and they were very, very successful. I do not think it's fair to complain about ports of games from the other systems, when the Wii isn't trying to be like them.
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 06 2009 11:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I can see the system hardware preventing it from running certain games, but there's no reason SC4 or SF4 couldn't be ported to it.
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Knyte
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 12:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

SC4, I could see, if they lighten up on polygons and made it look more like SC2 or SC3.

Not sure about SF4, though. I need to see it in action first.
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Ermac
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 02:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Here is my take on all this

The Wii in my opinion was just a low risk venture by Nintendo because of getting stomped by Sony in the home console market(Nintendo has ruled the portable market since the GameBoy in 89). Nintendo I believe didn't want to bother enduring another Gamecube type cycle again so they used R@R on a friendly interface rather than bleeding edge graphics like Sony did.
I do think the Wii2 will be on par with next gen graphics because of how successful the Wii was so we shouldnt worry about that next time around. I admire the Wii because its a great party system and chicks find it really fun. I also like the fact that all the forgotten Gamecube gems can be played on it as well, a nice touch by Nintendo.

As a mid range gamer I think having both a 360 and Wii is a good compromise. I like the PS3 alot but its still way too much for my pocketbook.


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Knyte
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 02:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly, if you own a x360 or a PS3, you don't need the other, unless you have to have one a the few "exclusive" games. (Halo 3, Resistance, MGS4, Uncharted, Lost Odyssey,etc.)

I don't have either at the moment, but don't really need one becaause the PC has been getting most of the same big name games ported. (Granted they come out way later, but I can still play them.)
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 04:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
The control scheme is complete bullshit, as the Wii has both GCN controller support and a Classic Controller.


You develop a game that requires an optional controller to play, and you shut out everyone who doesn't have that controller. This is something no developer wants to do.

This is probably why you saw a lot of zapper gun games on the NES compared to...well, games that required anything else. EVERYONE had a Zapper, they came with the NES. Not everyone could pick up a Power Glove.

Also, I think developers still think they -have- to use the Wii's movement gimmicks, otherwise they're wasting it.

Quote:
Another issue is that the big developers are sissy little crybaby losers and they are still mad at Nintendo over some of the stuff they pulled during the NES era. You know, 20 years ago. WAAAAAH, Nintendo censored our game. WAAAAAH, Nintendo made us sign a deal so we couldn't release Mega Man on the Sega Master System. Grow up, already.


I really, really doubt it. While LucasArts may have some issues or something like that, companies still made money hand over fist in those days, and you can make a strong argument that they made more money then they would have without Nintendo's exclusive licensing and manufacturing control. Nintendo's domination of the market made it -the- thing to have, and very few NES games went unsold...even bad ones.
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Evilwii
Joined: Oct 06 2008
PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 06:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Knyte wrote:
Honestly, if you own a x360 or a PS3, you don't need the other, unless you have to have one a the few "exclusive" games. (Halo 3, Resistance, MGS4, Uncharted, Lost Odyssey,etc.)

I don't have either at the moment, but don't really need one becaause the PC has been getting most of the same big name games ported. (Granted they come out way later, but I can still play them.)
dont say lost odyssey more like crap odyssey
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 06:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
Quote:
The control scheme is complete bullshit, as the Wii has both GCN controller support and a Classic Controller.

You develop a game that requires an optional controller to play, and you shut out everyone who doesn't have that controller. This is something no developer wants to do.

This argument hasn't be true since Year One of the Wii's release, and it may not have even been true then. The market shifted this century, and people have proven time and time again that they are willing to pay for optional controllers. That's why Guitar Hero, Rock Band, and Wii Fit are three of the biggest games right now. Hell, DDR would probably still be huge if Konami still had any idea how to make the game properly. And the Wii has been all about accessorizing, from the Wii Zapper to the Wii Wheel to cheesy little snap-ons that are supposed to make Wii Sports and Samba De Amigo more fun.

The days of unsold Sega Menacers and N64 fishing rods are over. People are in love with peripherals right now.
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UsaSatsui
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 08:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd, all the peripherals you mentioned are sold with the games. And they're all gimmick controllers that are only used with said games.

That's different from making a Wii game that only works with the classic controller and won't use the Wiimote.
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 09:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

It's still irrelevant. Does it really matter if you pay $90 for a game or $50 for the game and $30 for the controller? Besides if you have a Wii, you have Kart and SSBB. And if you're playing those without a GCN controller, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

Also, you NEED the GCN controller to play N64 games on the VC.
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UsaSatsui
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 09:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
It's still irrelevant. Does it really matter if you pay $90 for a game or $50 for the game and $30 for the controller?


That's not the right question.

The question is, "Do you want to release a $50 game that relies upon the purchaser owning a $30 controller someone else makes and manufactures?"

Quote:
Besides if you have a Wii, you have Kart and SSBB. And if you're playing those without a GCN controller, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.


Notice how those games still work with a Wiimote.

Quote:
Also, you NEED the GCN controller to play N64 games on the VC.


True.

Nintendo had three options, though:
1) Require the GCN or Classic Controller for the N64 games.
2) Come up with some horribly convoluted scheme that would let you play them on the Wiimote.
3) Not sell N64 games on the VC at all.

I think they made a good choice.
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DarknessDeku
Title: Deku Scrub
Joined: Dec 08 2007
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 10:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I wish you could play the N64 games with the N64 controller.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 10:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

DarknessDeku wrote:
I wish you could play the N64 games with the N64 controller.


No kidding.

I tried playing Ocarina of Time on a Gamecube controller (on the "Special Edition" Gamecube version). It...didn't go so well.
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 10:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
Quote:
It's still irrelevant. Does it really matter if you pay $90 for a game or $50 for the game and $30 for the controller?

That's not the right question.

The question is, "Do you want to release a $50 game that relies upon the purchaser owning a $30 controller someone else makes and manufactures?"

When that "someone else" is the console manufacturer, yes absolutely. Also, at this point, there are enough games with GCN controller support, that there is zero risk involved in releasing a game that uses GCN controllers as their primary control method. As I said, Kart and SSBB are both very compelling reasons to own GCN controllers, so is the virtual console, and there are enough other games with GCN support that the controllers could hardly be considered a waste of money. If you buy Guitar Hero III, you have a controller that works with that game - and if you're lucky - two or three sequels, and that's assuming that you don't play the shit out of it and ruin the whammy bar. A GCN controller has a significantly bigger library.

Who are they worried won't buy into this? Hardcore gamers? Hardcore games whine when games DON'T have a GCN support mode. Casual players? Casuals will buy anything. A Casual will buy a $500 PS3 just so he can play Madden 09, then drop another $200 on Rock Band when some chick whines because he doesn't have it. So the market is there. If people are willing to buy a peripheral that only works with one game, they are most definitely willing to buy one that works with multiple games.
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UsaSatsui
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PostPosted: Feb 07 2009 11:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
When that "someone else" is the console manufacturer, yes absolutely. Also, at this point, there are enough games with GCN controller support, that there is zero risk involved in releasing a game that uses GCN controllers as their primary control method.


Your "zero risk" runs off the assumption that everyone already has a GC controller or would be willing to buy one. That simply isn't true.

When you release a video game that isn't compatable with the controller that comes with the system, you are, right away, reducing the number of people who can buy that game before it comes out the door. You are risking people looking at your game, picking it up, and putting it back because they don't have the special controller. You risk having angry parents call and yell at you because the new game they just picked up for their kid won't work because the kid doesn't have the controller. You may not like the reason, but that's the reason.

Yes, Guitar Hero, Wii Fit, and all those other games that require wacky stuff to play also have that problem. They had to take some serious measures to solve them, including some agressive marketing, packing the special controller in with the game, and generally having top-notch products that people would want and know to buy.

For a game that didn't support the Wiimote to gain any sort of ground on the Wii, it would have basicly have to do all of the above: Be one hell of a badass game with one hell of a marketing strategy, and probably pack in the controller as well. Otherwise, It's probably not worth it.

Now, selling a game like Street Fighter IV for Wii with a special "Street Fighter Wii" controller packaged in would be fucking awesome. Could also release some older SFII games on the VC to use it with. Just sayin'
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Andrew Man
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 03:53 am Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
DarknessDeku wrote:
I wish you could play the N64 games with the N64 controller.


No kidding.

I tried playing Ocarina of Time on a Gamecube controller (on the "Special Edition" Gamecube version). It...didn't go so well.


The 64 games play fine on the GC controller, its the SNES games that are a real nightmare... Crying


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3DS is very good, and Wii U!

 
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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 08:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

Look none of this matters anyway.

March 10th. Madworld. Best game ever.
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Knyte
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 06:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Let me tell you a tale about a little game system, from back in 1987.

It was called the PC Engine:

Image
"Hi!"

The PC Engine was game system, that like many others, only came with a single controller. Not only that, it only came with a single controller port.

Which means to play multiplayer games you had to buy his friend the "TurboTap":
Image

As well as the extra controllers. To play ANY multiplayer game.

Seems, like kinda a rip off, and that no one would bother to buy multiplayer games since they would have to shell out an extra $60+ to play them.

And, if no one was going to buy them, then why would publishers make them?

And, if there weren't any games, then the system probably didn't sell well did it.

Oh wait, it was one of the most successful systems of all time. The PC Engine was extremely popular in Japan, beating Nintendo's Famicom in sales soon after its release, with no fewer than twelve console models released from 1987 to 1993. New games were made for it up until 1999.

The moral of the story:

If it is worth it, people will buy it. No much how much extra crap they have to buy to have it.
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UsaSatsui
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 06:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

...But how well did the multiplayer games themselves sell? How well the system itself sold doesn't matter.

And how many of those multiplayer games were completely unplayable with a single player?

And if this was such a good strategy, why did the US release of the system include a second controller port?

There is a very big difference between something that offers limited playability without a special accessory and something that is completely unplayable without a special accessory.
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Optimist With Doubts
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 07:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
Look none of this matters anyway.

March 10th. Madworld. Best game ever.

agreed


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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 08:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

UsaSatsui wrote:
...But how well did the multiplayer games themselves sell? How well the system itself sold doesn't matter.

The PC Engine's multiplayer games did quite well. One of the most popular games was Bomberman '93, which was named Best TG-16 Game of the 1993 by EGM.
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Ba'al
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 08:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Andrew Man wrote:
UsaSatsui wrote:
DarknessDeku wrote:
I wish you could play the N64 games with the N64 controller.


No kidding.

I tried playing Ocarina of Time on a Gamecube controller (on the "Special Edition" Gamecube version). It...didn't go so well.


The 64 games play fine on the GC controller, its the SNES games that are a real nightmare... Crying

I agree, I get handaches to this day trying to play any of the DKC games on VC.


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Syd Lexia
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PostPosted: Feb 08 2009 08:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I didn't have any problems with ActRaiser or Super Mario World with the GCN controller.
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