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Captain_Pollution
Title: Hugh
Joined: Sep 23 2007
Posts: 1591
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http://www.newsweek.com/id/236999
I heard a debate about this on the CBC, earlier. One side claimed that Ramin Setoodeh was saying gay actors cannot play straight actors, or at least that their sexuality inhibits their performance. The other side said that Setoodeh was merely saying that those particular gay actors appeared gay in their roles, and thus did not perform them as well as they could be performed; that their homosexuality was showing. He claimed that this may have been a result of going into their performances aware of their sexuality, and that in an ideal world you would go in a blank slate, but you can't pretend the prejudice isn't there, when you know they're gay. Attention was also drawn to the opinion that there is a double standard for gay actors in Hollywood. They quoted Collin Firth saying "If you're known as a straight guy, playing a gay role, you get rewarded for that, if you're a gay man and you want to play a straight role, you don't get cast."
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Myself, I think a distinction needs to be drawn between people who are gay, and people who appear "gay." I've known a few gay people who don't act any differently than anyone else, and I know a few straight people who act like stereotypical gay people. In my eyes, wearing tight clothes and speaking with a lisp does not equal homosexuality.
I also think, though, that this does touch on a deeper issue than one man's homophobia. Ramin Setoodeh himself has also tried to push the issue beyond his own personal views, and to the idea that gay men and women are disadvantaged in acting careers. He commented that while many gay actors have played straight roles without any issue, most of the time, it wasn't known that they were openly gay at the time; that perhaps the only reason Jonathan Groff in Glee seemed gay is because Setoodeh knew he was, going in. That I can kind of hear... I've definitely heard of the straight guys in Brokeback Mountain being praised for their playing gays (Not that I necessarily agree with that), but if I heard a gay man being praised for his performance as a straight guy, it would sound homophobic, to me.
Regardless, I have trouble getting over how disgusting I find it that Setoodeh claims their sexuality inhibits their performance - it doesn't matter if he's saying they act gay or he can't ignore that they're gay, to me. I don't think an actor's sexuality need be a part of the role they play, and I don't think gay people are necessarily any different from straight people in normal life. So even if he is saying that you can't ignore that they're gay, and that they do have to overcome that in their role, I don't think there's anything to overcome.
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 <Drew_Linky> Well, I've eaten vegetables all of once in my life.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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I thought Neil Patrick Harris did a good job. In fact his job in Harold and Kumar made me legit shocked when he really did come out of the closet.
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 5042
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Matt Bomer from White Collar does a fine job too. As does Ian McKellen, John Barrowman, Ceaser Romero, David Hyde Pierce, Dick Sargent and the list goes on. As long as there has been Hollywood there has been gay actors.
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Captain_Pollution
Title: Hugh
Joined: Sep 23 2007
Posts: 1591
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Neil Patrick Harris, Ian McKellen, David Hyde Peirce, and Dick Sargent all came out of the closet after they became famous. Cesar Romero never officially came out, as far as I can tell, and while it wasn't a secret in Hollywood, it was to the general public. Matt Bomer hasn't denied or confirmed his sexuality. I think all of those examples go hand in hand with (Though don't necessarily prove) what Ramin Setoodeh was saying.
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 <Drew_Linky> Well, I've eaten vegetables all of once in my life.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Rock Hudson did a good job too. Lots of people do. This is stupid and sort of homophobic.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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yeah, this is a non issue to me. in fact, a total waste of topic
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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Also, Jonathan Groff plays a straight guy pretty well. I only know he's gay because my sister was whining about how disappointed she was that he's gay.
It's also a non-issue with lesbians. I don't think Portia de Rossi has ever played a gay character.
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 5042
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| Captain_Pollution wrote: |
| Neil Patrick Harris, Ian McKellen, David Hyde Peirce, and Dick Sargent all came out of the closet after they became famous. Cesar Romero never officially came out, as far as I can tell, and while it wasn't a secret in Hollywood, it was to the general public. Matt Bomer hasn't denied or confirmed his sexuality. I think all of those examples go hand in hand with (Though don't necessarily prove) what Ramin Setoodeh was saying. |
But that's the thing if they are famous their coming out is even more noted and further roles would be a problem.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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ultimately, who cares?! no one makes a big deal when an australian plays a canadian. or an american a british guy et. al.
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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Milhouse
Joined: Dec 19 2008
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 485
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Cameron
Title: :O � O:
Joined: Feb 01 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4637
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| Captain_Pollution wrote: |
| I don't think an actor's sexuality need be a part of the role they play |
This right here. I don't see what an actor/actress's actual sexuality has anything to do with their actual competancy at playing a heterosexual character (or any character). If they can play the role in a manner that goes with the character, sexual oriention isn't and shouldn't be a factor.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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What about all the actors who have played rapists on SVU? Non-rapists can't play convincing rapists.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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Also remember Rock Hudson...no one in a million years would've thought he was gay.
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Captain_Pollution
Title: Hugh
Joined: Sep 23 2007
Posts: 1591
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If I'd thought this was just someone saying "You can spot gays a mile away" or whatever, I'd think this was dumb and didn't warrant discussion, but I don't think that's what it is. In my opinion, it just draws to light a struggle gay people face. Ramin Setoodeh is showing the problem by example, but nonetheless, he is showing that prejudices such as these are prevelant and do exist. You came up with a list of actors who got famous and then revealed they were gay, which shows that gay people can play convincing straight people perfectly well. Of course they can. That shouldn't need to be proven.
The issue here is the challenge gay people face in the industry. Like that quote I had in the first post, "If you're known as a straight guy, playing a gay role, you get rewarded for that, if you're a gay man and you want to play a straight role, you don't get cast." Obviously once you have a solid career under your belt, people won't turn you away because of your sexuality, but articles like this show that if it gets out that you're gay first, some critics will go into your performance with that in mind. Ramin Setoodeh was watching the performance viewing Jonathon Groff or whoever else as a gay guy, so of course he'd have trouble playing a convincing straight guy, in that situation. Setoodeh is being homophobic here, and I'm not defending him, but it shows that there can be that challenge against gay people who aren't already well-known actors.
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 <Drew_Linky> Well, I've eaten vegetables all of once in my life.
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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
Posts: 10376
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I thought everyone in Hollywood was gay anyways, so what's the problem?
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Optimist With Doubts
Title: Titlating
Joined: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 5042
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But my point cap is that if your well known you being gay will also be more well known. The fact that anyone knows you are gay already means you have a level of fame. Case in point everyone knew when ricky martin came out but if some other member of Menudo fewer would notice.
No I think if a straight person plays primarily gay people for a majority of his life I think they would be less believable as a straight person than a recently outed person trying to play the same role.
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Captain_Pollution
Title: Hugh
Joined: Sep 23 2007
Posts: 1591
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All I meant by it affecting the ones who are already famous is that it wouldn't inhibit their abilities to get work. Regardless of what you think of his acting, if you turn away Neil Patrick Harris or someone like that, as far as the business end goes, you're a dumbass. Neil Patrick Harris, when he came out, didn't have to worry about being able to find work. I don't think that holds nearly as true for someone whose name means nothing.
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 <Drew_Linky> Well, I've eaten vegetables all of once in my life.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24887
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I really don't think gayness prevents people from getting cast in Hollywood. Hollywood is very progressive. They invented gayness. They invented civil rights. They were the first to shout about AIDS when it was just a whisper!
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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alright george clooney
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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My smug detector is red lining.
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Posts: 2747
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Rosie O'Donnell
Seriously, only actor/actress I've seen who couldn't convincingly play a straight character.
Also, totally fucking ruined Betty Rubble for me, formerly the hottest piece of ass in the whole Hanna-Barberra pantheon.
And yeah... I was a sad, weird little kid.
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 Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much. |
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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I didn't know Rosie was gay, I thought he married his girlfriend not too long ago?
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Marcus[SKoGM}
Title: Bushwacked
Joined: May 19 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 94
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Wouldn't this all just come down to an actor's ability? Hell, most good actors I've seen in theater are gay. I don't think the public really cares who's gay, and really it should have no bearing on these roles. In an ideal role, we wouldn't even seek out anything about an actor's personal life. We would just let them do their jobs like anyone else we see. Hell, in a different time we wouldn't even pay attention to their performances. We would just drink ale and sorta pay attention to the dialogue.
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 You wouldn't happen to be the Tek Knight by any chance? |
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JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
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Dan Butler played Bulldog on "Frasier" and I had no idea he was gay. He's awesome.
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Lady_Satine
Title: Head of Lexian R&D
Joined: Oct 15 2005
Location: Metro area, Georgia
Posts: 7287
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| joshwoodzy wrote: |
| Dan Butler played Bulldog on "Frasier" and I had no idea he was gay. He's awesome. |
Wow, really? That makes two of us. I suspected David Hyde Pierce, but never him.
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 "Life is a waste of time. Time is a waste of life. Get wasted all the time, and you'll have the time of your life!" |
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