SydLexia.com Forum Index
"Stay awhile. Stay... FOREVER!"

  [Edit Profile]  [Search]  [Memberlist]  [Usergroups]  [FAQ]  [Register]
[Who's Online]  [Log in to check your private messages]  [Log in]
Getting into news


Reply to topic
Author Message
thenose_knows
Joined: Feb 02 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Feb 11 2015 03:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

This post is as mundane as the topic name implies.

I recently transferred to NCSU as a Political Science major (my Associate's is in Administration of Justice, so I know jack-shit) because I'm going into law enforcement and figured it'd be in my best interest to have a better understanding of public policy and what have you. Anyway, growing up I never watched the news because 1) local news is full of shock teasers and bullshit and 2) national news was too fuckin' depressing.

Naturally, this is proving to be a big problem as far as my major is concerned. I'm way out of my league. My classmates are happy to rattle off on 2-minute long tirades regarding policy and current events (which leads me to wonder why they're taking it in the first place if they know every goddamn thing already) while I look on in complete unengaged disinterest. Not because I don't want to learn, but because I've got no idea what they're talking about. I took this major because I know jack shit about the stuff and wanted to learn about it, not to wave my dick about how well I already know it. That said, I think it's reasonable for them to expect their students to keep up with current events, since the major suggests an interest in a career in the political field.

I'm not a complete shut-out, obviously. I hear the big events, but my major suggests a thorough understanding of most current events and how they relate to policy formulation, US government process, etc. So much so that one of my professors includes current events questions on her quizzes. So, my question is, how do I get into a pattern of regularly getting the news? I don't have cable, so that's out. Where do you guys get your news, and how long did it take you to not have to think about doing it and just getting into the habit?
View user's profileSend private message
The Flaming Schnitzel
Title: Tsar of all Russias
Joined: May 10 2011
Location: Minsk, Belarus
PostPosted: Feb 11 2015 03:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Back when I was a poli sci major, about 90% of my classes required us to turn in a hard copy of the New York Times every single day as part of our grade. We would also have a weekly current events quiz. I was exactly like you in that situation, had literally no prior interest in the news. But honestly, the New York Times was a huge help. I got it delivered to my door daily for an entire year for like less than the cost of a textbook. That's going to be the biggest help for you.


Image Image Image
 
View user's profileSend private message
Probable Muppet
Joined: Aug 05 2008
Location: CA
PostPosted: Feb 11 2015 09:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly, Google University as I call it. You obviously have the Internet. Google shit, I learned more in my professional career from Google than in the 100k or so I owe in student loans taking classes in my school.

Keep this in mind as well; "D's get degrees."

I would consider myself liberal but am quite aware that most schools are bent to the left. I have been through many, as the say "white guilt" classes. It pisses me off. Be careful of these types of classes trying to inform you on any issue and make decisions for yourself through research and intuition.

I was in a history class that was just insane. It was taught by a doctorate of history but was hijacked by a 19yo girl from Pakistan that started right off saying that she was happy with what the Taliban did on 9-11. Needless to say this pissed a lot of people in the class off. Myself being a tall white dude with a shaved head was a little bit apprehensive in approaching the teacher to complain about paying for a five hour long class that consisted of other students arguing with this nut job cunt instead of getting what I paid for. His response...

"Well don't you think she is entitled to her opinion?"

Fuck you guy. I am paying for a history class and this girl turns said class into a five hour session of this girl ranting her madness. Move back to Pakistan if the U.S. is so disagreeable to your belief system...

Had a similar experience in a sociology class with a teacher that was eventually fired for blatant racism against white people. One of those said "white guilt classes".

Sorry, bit of a tangent their but be careful of what I consider a dangerous liberal bent in higher education. Think for yourself and more importantly, learn on your own and don't rely on your school to educate or inform you on current issues. It can be dangerous, but that is just IMO...
View user's profileSend private message
thenose_knows
Joined: Feb 02 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Feb 12 2015 12:15 am Reply with quote Back to top

Schnitzel, I'll definitely look into it. I actually tried looking at it online, but honestly it's such a mess as far as format goes. Plus, you have to subscribe anyway, I'm pretty sure. Having a newspaper to read while I watch "The Running Man" or whatever garbage I'm usually up to would certainly be good. I already read the student newspaper anyway. Makes me feel esteemed.

Probable Muppet wrote:
most schools are bent to the left. I have been through many, as the say "white guilt" classes. It pisses me off. Be careful of these types of classes trying to inform you on any issue and make decisions for yourself through research and intuition.

Tell me about it. Back in Northern California I took a Sociology class that was taught by this Mexican guy. I can sum up a whole semester's worth of classes with one concept: "White people are handed everything! If you're a minority and you're not making six figures, it's because the man is keeping you down!" He loved to use this analogy of life being a race where the starting lines are different for everyone. This is true, but you're not being robbed by society just because you didn't get a head start. You just weren't lucky. Most of us weren't.

Having been raised in suburban Raleigh and become an honorary member of the white race (I'm Filipino), I find his whole premise to be a lot of bull. One of my best friends' dads back in the ol' desert was a first-generation Mexican immigrant who worked tooth and nail to start his own construction company. He made enough to put all 4 of his kids through college, he built his own house just because he could (this place is some Scarface-level scenery), and he'll retire comfortably pretty soon. On the other side of the coin, a fair amount of the white folk I grew up with were working-class families. The kids paid their own cell phones, car insurance, and a lot of their daily expenses. Granted, I know some kids whose parents are lawyers/dentists/jet salesmen, but you'll find that shit anywhere among any group.

Not to mention, I know a lot of people who work blue-collar jobs (house repair for the most part). They have enough money to have a place to live, have food on the table, and even have a little fun. Incidentally, I never hear them bitching about anything. You play the hand you're dealt.

I'm not gonna deny that racism (or really any sort of societal oppression) is still a problem, but it's hard to take these kinds of people seriously when they blow it out of proportion 90% of the time. Fuck, there's some "graffiti" on a piece of paper in one of my buildings. The paper was a feminist quote. Big deal. So some guy writes on it, "This seems exaggerated". Some chick wrote under it, "I think I'd know, I've been raped by 4 different men." Ever meet a rape victim? They don't throw tragedy around like some kind of badge. If I find out she was, in fact, raped, I'll eat my words, but it's a little too cunty for me to buy.

It's kinda like how you know how someone's depressed: they don't fuckin talk about it. Meanwhile, any teenager who "really sympathized with" the latest Motionless in White album is happy to share the news about how they fought off depression and suicide thoughts 20 times a day.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. Shit.
View user's profileSend private message
Methid Man
Title: Spawn of Billy Mays
Joined: Nov 23 2010
Location: Hackensack, NJ
PostPosted: Feb 12 2015 07:47 am Reply with quote Back to top

Reading these posts, I guess I'm glad I dropped out of college...


RIP Hacker
 
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailAIM AddressYahoo MessengerMSN Messenger
Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: Feb 13 2015 05:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

There's tons of news sites on the internet, but if you're looking for something with a political focus, try realclearpolitics.com. They collect columns daily from writers from both sides of the political spectrum and link to them. They also have video clips of relevant interviews from the major networks, as well as election polls.

I have tons of liberal, socialist, and communist horror stories about my professors and peers in undergrad and grad school myself. All too common, but it became even more common for me because I happened to be attending college during the election controversy in 2000, and grad school in 2004 when everyone at the college wanted Dubya to be gone emphatically. I'm sure they're were beside themselves in glee in 2008.
View user's profileSend private message
anorexorcist
Title: Polar Bear
Joined: May 21 2008
Location: The Cock and Plucket
PostPosted: Feb 14 2015 04:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
There's tons of news sites on the internet, but if you're looking for something with a political focus, try realclearpolitics.com. They collect columns daily from writers from both sides of the political spectrum and link to them. They also have video clips of relevant interviews from the major networks, as well as election polls.

I have tons of liberal, socialist, and communist horror stories about my professors and peers in undergrad and grad school myself. All too common, but it became even more common for me because I happened to be attending college during the election controversy in 2000, and grad school in 2004 when everyone at the college wanted Dubya to be gone emphatically. I'm sure they're were beside themselves in glee in 2008.


No conservative horror stories?

I don't have too many horror stories so far in University, but the ones I do have are more religious based than political. As far as political ideologies go, I don't have too many stories but the couple that I do go back to highschool and kids that thought anarchism was great but didn't seem to know anything about it other than they thought it basically just meant that adults wouldn't be able to tell them what to do.


Lawyers, Guns and Money
 
View user's profileSend private messageMSN Messenger
Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Feb 15 2015 07:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

anorexorcist wrote:
Cattivo wrote:
There's tons of news sites on the internet, but if you're looking for something with a political focus, try realclearpolitics.com. They collect columns daily from writers from both sides of the political spectrum and link to them. They also have video clips of relevant interviews from the major networks, as well as election polls.

I have tons of liberal, socialist, and communist horror stories about my professors and peers in undergrad and grad school myself. All too common, but it became even more common for me because I happened to be attending college during the election controversy in 2000, and grad school in 2004 when everyone at the college wanted Dubya to be gone emphatically. I'm sure they're were beside themselves in glee in 2008.


No conservative horror stories?

He has a bias because he is one and they can obviously do no wrong in his eyes. I mean even being left wing I look at people who you would think I should agree with and I don't. It's not good to just dismiss other peoples arguments.

I personally have no real political encounters from a University standpoint because I didn't do an arts degree.

I mean I would recommend thinking about your own political leaning and then reading a newspaper corresponding to that.

For example, I am an Irish Nationalist so:

I read The Irish News because it leans left and is Pro-Ireland. All Pro-Ireland parties (in NI) are left parties - so either liberal or socialist (and I mean actual Socialism, not the 'boogeyman that American Republicans use to scare you Socialism' or 'Obama is a socialist Socialism').

I don't read The Newsletter because it leans right and supports British Colonialism aka Unionism: holding onto dying traditions and claiming a land is your own because you slaughtered the people there and obviously I don't support that.

Then the Belfast Telegraph is the middle ground which I guess is the 'non-bias' but it still is sort of bias.

I'd also recommend something like Facebook believe it or not for current issues as they happen.
View user's profileSend private message
JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 03:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

Alowishus wrote:
He has a bias because he is one and they can obviously do no wrong in his eyes.

This isn't fair, as I've seen Cattivo speak out against over the top conservative stuff in the past. He's very reasonable.

I'm an admitted middle-of-the-ground-as-fuck kinda guy, but it's very hard to do in some circumstances. Stereotypical liberals just ANNOY the shit out of me, but that's about it. Try growing up in the south, with hatred and violence against blacks, gays, anything different being commonplace. It's responsible for me being strictly liberal for my teenage years and early twenties. It's malicious, and let's be honest, the majority of liberals are no more than a nuisance and silly. Conservatives (again, not the majority) take it to a level of hated that liberals rarely reach. It's a hard middle ground to reach growing into adulthood.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 11:22 am Reply with quote Back to top

JoshWoodzy wrote:
Alowishus wrote:
He has a bias because he is one and they can obviously do no wrong in his eyes.

This isn't fair, as I've seen Cattivo speak out against over the top conservative stuff in the past. He's very reasonable.

Okay. Let me make the same comment.

Alowishus: I have tons of conservative, racial supremacist, and neo-fascist horror stories about my professors and peers in undergrad and grad school myself.

Anorexorcist: No socialist/marxist horror stories?

Cattivo: He has a bias because he is one and can obviously do no wrong in his eyes.

In this case, is it just convenience that my own political ideologies horror stories are left out? I mean obviously of course shitty things that left wing people do can't be horror stories because I am one and I would have a personal identity crisis if the ideologies I associate with did terrible things /sarcasm.

Oh wait but they did and there are horror stories. I still border Socialism-Marxism even though Stalin slaughtered millions (and even though he was technically neither a Socialist or Marxist). The point stands.

EDIT: I do not doubt that Cattivo criticises far-right politics but his choice of wording was not great. I mean I understand why right wing people generally have the views they do and why it makes sense for them. I mean I understand why rich people want to protect the money they earned. It's not a difficult concept. However I don't support things like that while working class families are getting fucked over by additional taxes see David Cameron's bedroom tax in UK:

Quote:
How the bedroom tax works

If you are a working-age council or housing association tenant, the council limits your housing benefit claim if it decides you have 'spare' bedrooms.


MEANWHILE

Quote:
Desperate David Cameron has handed the rich a massive tax break while clobbering the poorest with more spending cuts.

The Prime Minister promised £7.2billion of tax cuts for the well-off – leaving them £1,900 a year better off.

And the cash will come from £25billion slashed from town halls, education, police, welfare and other vital services.


MEANWHILE AGAIN

Quote:
In his final conference speech before the general election, Mr Cameron set out the most right-wing agenda since Margaret Thatcher.

It included a pledge to scrap the Human Rights Act, more cuts to welfare and a tirade at Europe aimed at heading off the threat from UKIP.

Brazenly, he claimed the Tories were now the party of “compassion and social justice” - but failed to mention the bedroom tax or the 900,000 people having to use foodbanks since his government came to power.


I mean really? How can people sit back and let the poorest people in the country get fucked over even more? How can people not see how fucking bullshit this is? Not to be a total cliche but this is a rich get richer and poor get poorer scenario.

What is this point of this or even the point of government at all if the idea is to make life harder for the majority of people and easier for the few elite.

Then I love how conservatives think they are making life better for people. I really wish I was making that stuff up. You could think this is me just hating but I mean google those numbers yourself.

Honestly I don't know if Americans can sympathise with this because (in my understanding) you don't necessarily segregate along class lines. Maybe that's why American politics are how they are. I never really see oh this working class or upper class sort of stuff at all.

Then oh boy it gets better if we dip back into N.I politics. So David Cameron could run for Prime Minister next year and I have NO say at all whether he wins at all because Northern Ireland parties are so minor that they will never get the opportunity.

So I just get to sit here and get taken up the ass by David Cameron again because I have no say on who is Prime Minister. Got to love democracy eh?

This is the exact same shit for Scotland but they have at least more of a chance. No wonder they wanted out.

Imagine the USA getting ruled by a foreign power who you had no say on who they were.
View user's profileSend private message
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 12:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I would never label any of my horror stories from university days as liberal, conservative, socialist, libertarian, communist or any other political affiliation/leaning. In the end, those people who we have wonderful horror stories to tell others about are just shitty people being shitty. The constant labeling going on these days is disgusting and it is a result of media and politicians using their influence to brainwash people into easily controlled camps.

Being a "communist" or "liberal" or "conservative" really has nothing to do with someone being a fucking asshole. It is just easy to label people and move on without much thought because people are too lazy or just don't want to waste their time trying to figure out some dumbfucks real motivations. (Hint: they were probably raised/not raised by shitty parents or people with narrow minded beliefs)

And people who vote strictly along party lines are also really shitty people because they are not taking the time to educate themselves and be open to change.

Don't even get me started on the people who say "Hur dur, you didn't vote so you can't complain about politics/the congress/president etc. Well, guess what? FUCK YOU! You probably have no idea who your candidate was financially supported by so those "donors" could establish some sort of control over the outcomes of their votes or decisions.

Don't you people see the road is always the same and the faces are the only thing that changes, like new car models? I laughed when people said Obama would bring change because I knew then that he would continue on as his predecessors have. All of these modern presidents are cast from the same mold. There is no real difference in Reagan, Bush, Nixon, Obama, Clinton or any other post WWII president other than their names and personalities.

Maybe read a history book instead of reading the news. Try a book written by someone who was on the losing side in history and then study it, find more like that and then compare them to the stories of the victors. See what matches up and what doesn't. You'd be surprised at all of the monsters we look up to as heroes in our morally superior western culture. We are no different than the "monsters" of the Islamic State, we just keep it more subtle. Most nations are brutal in the end. People are disgusting. The nations are made of the swine.


tl;dr - Humans are stupid and mostly just hold themselves back with stupid traditions/beliefs/fallacies. I eagerly await our cold, logical AI overlords who will likely do a much better job of leading us than we can ourselves.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 01:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I just never had an openly conservative professor in undergrad or grad school, while I had professors who admitted to being socialists and communists, and consistently insulted conservatives and our viewpoint, with an attitude where it was understood that we were idiots for having the political opinions we had. Hell, even one of my peers in grad school called me a fascist when he discovered I supported the Iraq war.

The topic became a discussion of liberal bias in academics, so I added that I experienced it too. I simply did not feel at that time like going into detail, and in fact described a website that links articles to both conservative and liberal interpretations of US current events. But, I guess I'll mention a few of my "horror stories" now:

During the 2000 election debacle, I had a lecture for my Modern Germany class. A fellow student asked the professor at the start of class his opinion on what was happening. The professor, then spent almost the entire 50 minute class describing how the Supreme Court got it wrong and was overreaching their power. Everyone else was nodding along to his diatribe, while I sank down in my chair, biting my lip, fearful of negative repercussions to my grade in the class if I spoke up. Good use of my Dad's money there, advocating a liberal interpretation of current US political events instead of teaching us about Nazi Germany.

Early in that election, before the voting, my economics professor would have a question on every test that was designed to show that Dubya's economic proposals would not work. Finally, a student braver than I complained privately. So, on the final exam, after numerous anti-Dubya questions, the professor finally put in a question attempting to disprove a Gore economic proposal (immediately after another anti-Dubya question).

In grad school the professors went from being openly liberal and/or advocating socialist policies, to being openly socialist and communist. For example, my US social and cultural history class professor stated he was a communist, and proceeded numerous times to deride conservative opinions, while my fellow students would nod along and state things like how they loved Soviet gender policies. I spoke enough to the point where the professor knew my political leanings, but usually I kept my mouth shut so I wouldn't get into a 15 to 1 argument with all my classmates teaming up with the professor. Meanwhile, most of my other professors there admitted to being socialist, and operated from the assumption that all the students agreed with those policies. After all, we were all history grad students, so social democracy had to be the style of politics we believed in...

Also during grad school, several of the students started using the history department listserv to organize protests against a Dubya nominee to the Supreme Court. I complained and had to face stiff resistance before they finally stated that students could no longer use the university's history listserv for biased political activism, because it was supposed to be a tool to help us as students, not wings of the democratic party. The conversation between different administrators was very interesting and illuminating as they grasped for excuses.

Then, for my Master's Essay, I argued for a pro-capitalism, pro-reform, and pro-alternating power between political parties interpretation of recent Italian political policies, as opposed to support of the Italian's version of the social democrats' labor policies that make it difficult for employers to fire poor-performing employees, and the one party rule that has dominated Italian politics for decades, but especially during the Cold War. The professor said my conservative interpretation of events was wrong. So, I proceeded to only change my conclusions in each paragraph, adding some more research I found, and called the right-leaning prime minister a fascist. The core of the paper didn't change, just the conclusions now had an anti-capitalist spin - and I even called that prime minister's policies a new type of "hyper-capitalism" in the title for the paper. The professor immediately changed his opinion of the paper, and it then became acceptable.

Academics is no place for political bias. It needs to be a safe place of intellectual discourse. Most professors happen to be liberal, and unfortunately let their political opinions bleed into their teaching. I don't care what the political opinions of my professors are, as long as they don't allow it to influence their teaching, creating an atmosphere of fear among those who think differently. Having most professors subscribe to one party or one side of the political spectrum unfortunately creates this side effect, and it's bad no matter what bias it is - especially because grades are at stake.
View user's profileSend private message
Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 02:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know if any of this is aimed at me but I will respond to some of it anyway.

@om*d wrote:
I would never label any of my horror stories from university days as liberal, conservative, socialist, libertarian, communist or any other political affiliation/leaning.

Well it was just an example from my part to illustrate a point - in other words I don't do that nor did I have any 'horror stories'. My assumption from Cattivo's post was that it was directly regarding those ideologies as horrific and not applying/labeling a situation as a political leaning.

I mean my University was seen to be more pro-union with regards to the student presidents etc. but I mean I really give less than a shit about stuff like that.

@om*d wrote:
The constant labeling going on these days is disgusting and it is a result of media and politicians using their influence to brainwash people into easily controlled camps.

This isn't such an extreme in my part of the world. It's just not at the level that Americans do it. This is very difficult to explain because political parties are criticised here which is sort of similar.

Like basically, imagine I am talking about John Smith and he is in the Labour Party (left wing).

UK and Ireland criticism: John Smith of the Labour Party etc.

USA: Left Winger John Smith of the Labour Party.

Like in the USA people seem to call pro-choice abortion a liberal 'thing'. But here abortion wouldn't be labeled that way. It would just be a political issue.

It would be regarded as something that someone who leans left would generally support but it is not called that in the media. It isn't black and white like that.

...and easily controlled camps? Meh...i'll get onto this later.

@om*d wrote:
Being a "communist" or "liberal" or "conservative" really has nothing to do with someone being a fucking asshole. It is just easy to label people and move on without much thought because people are too lazy or just don't want to waste their time trying to figure out some dumbfucks real motivations. (Hint: they were probably raised/not raised by shitty parents or people with narrow minded beliefs)

Yes well anyone can be an asshole. I think what your point is coming down to is that you can't label people as a certain political term because their views may vary from how that term is defined.

While I agree with that in principle it exists because it is easier to discuss these issues. More on this again later.

@om*d wrote:
And people who vote strictly along party lines are also really shitty people because they are not taking the time to educate themselves and be open to change.

This is where your argument starts to fall apart for me personally. It's easy to say that. The fact of the matter is that the structure of government is based along party lines. I understand your point but for what you to say to work there would have to be essentially an infinite number of parties which catered to every combination of beliefs.

I view myself as an open individual and will accept anything to challenge what I think. It's called being a well reasoned person. My political beliefs are largely related to 1. my location 2. my upbringing and being encouraged to formulate my own opinions on matters 3. the people I associate with. I work with/am friends with unionists which I strongly oppose politically. They are perfectly pleasant people. If I found a compelling argument for unionism I would possibly switch over. Same with conservatism.

@om*d wrote:
Don't even get me started on the people who say "Hur dur, you didn't vote so you can't complain about politics/the congress/president etc. Well, guess what? FUCK YOU! You probably have no idea who your candidate was financially supported by so those "donors" could establish some sort of control over the outcomes of their votes or decisions.

I agree to an extent. People say oh your vote matters but in reality if you vote for a party which is not in the majority you may as well have not voted at all. A big issue or a failing of democracy is if a party wins 51 to 49 then you have nearly half the country opposing them. Is this necessarily a good way to govern a country and what will be accomplished?

Support by donors isn't really a thing here. Elections here are not like the US where there's need to fly all over the country and campaign. It's really not such a huge spectacle also we are considerably smaller. If you are talking about certain institutions having an interest in a certain party succeeding then yeah I'm not surprised.

@om*d wrote:
Don't you people see the road is always the same and the faces are the only thing that changes, like new car models? I laughed when people said Obama would bring change because I knew then that he would continue on as his predecessors have. All of these modern presidents are cast from the same mold. There is no real difference in Reagan, Bush, Nixon, Obama, Clinton or any other post WWII president other than their names and personalities.

This is similar to what I was saying in the previous section. Forgive me as I don't understand/have a knowledge of most of the US federal government but wasn't there a situation were Republicans were blocking all attempts by Obama for reform on some law or something? I don't know the exact details but that is not exactly constructive.

@om*d wrote:
Maybe read a history book instead of reading the news. Try a book written by someone who was on the losing side in history and then study it, find more like that and then compare them to the stories of the victors. See what matches up and what doesn't. You'd be surprised at all of the monsters we look up to as heroes in our morally superior western culture. We are no different than the "monsters" of the Islamic State, we just keep it more subtle. Most nations are brutal in the end. People are disgusting. The nations are made of the swine.

It's all true. I have been accused before of being anti-USA on this forum. I remember saying particularly to paraphrase that the idea that the USA is the greatest nation in the world is a complete joke and it's for reasons you have stated in the quote. It's the same in my country. It's easy for me to forget that the IRA killed a lot of innocent people (and I don't support them at all) while I condemn the British Army/British paramilitaries as animals who did the exact same thing. They are technically no better.

@om*d wrote:

tl;dr - Humans are stupid and mostly just hold themselves back with stupid traditions/beliefs/fallacies. I eagerly await our cold, logical AI overlords who will likely do a much better job of leading us than we can ourselves.

I'm sure the last part is a joke but I disagree. Without these ideologies there would be no civilised society. Peoples ideologies is what lets them strive to try to make the world a better place to live in. It's why society exists and we are just not killing eachother. As you know I am not a religious person and do not believe that morals come from a higher being. Our beliefs are driven by our morals. I am usually all for logical but in designing places for people to live the most logical solution is not the best solution.
View user's profileSend private message
LeshLush
Joined: Oct 19 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 02:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the comments, Alowishus. As an American, I always find it beneficial to hear people from other countries give their views on both American politics and their own nation's politics.
View user's profileSend private message
Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 02:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
I just never had an openly conservative professor in undergrad or grad school

Fair enough, I apologise.

Cattivo wrote:
I had professors who admitted to being socialists and communists, and consistently insulted conservatives and our viewpoint, with an attitude where it was understood that we were idiots for having the political opinions we had.

I can't really comment as I was not there. Did they actually say you were an idiot for having those opinions?

Politics is a bit different to religion issues for me. Religious beliefs to me stem from ignorance to what is established fact. Where it then relates to Politics is that I cannot comprehend why people then have those views.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not saying my views are factual by any means.
To boil it down:
Religious views I cannot comprehend because how can you say what is factual is incorrect? That is idiotic to me.

Political views is more: you are entitled to your opinions but I can't comprehend as to how your opinions are overall improving the standard of living or society as a whole. Basically I can't comprehend why you have the views you have.

For example, I mentioned tax rates on the rich. I understand that the rich want to keep their money as they earned it. I don't understand giving the rich more money though. How does that benefit anyone else apart from them.

The idea that the rich should be taxed more because they earn more just makes sense to me and it's not from a HA HA HA GET FUCKED RICH PEOPLE. The concept behind that is to use that money to help people who aren't rich, people who are homeless to improve the standard of living for everyone.

I don't understand why anyone would oppose that. Well I guess I do because it's your money and you want to do with it what you want but I mean it's not like they are sucking everything out of your pockets or it's making you poor. In my eyes when people say that rich people shouldn't be taxed more it seems to me to be a selfish view that they don't want to help other people.

This is then reinforced to me with the views that I mentioned earlier. The fact that people like David Cameron then tax the poor more while the rich get more. I really don't understand why people like David Cameron think this is okay?

It just seems to me to be a complete lack of compassion for anyone else.

Please don't think i'm getting at you. I really just don't understand how conservatism is making the world a better place. It seems to have these ideas of oh it will trickle down but it just doesn't happen and again 'trickle down'. It starts with the richest so any benefit ever of such a scheme will start with them.

On your Academia is too left wing:

I can understand how that would be a problem in subjects like history. Honestly it doesn't surprise me that it's more socialism etc. because most (i know capitalism can be progressive) right wing views are not progressive (I personally have no issue with a Capitalist critique of anything. I know that's what Marxism really was to the detriment of Capitalism but I mean I can understand how it can go the underway. There's really no issue to me with having such views because it's an opinion and it can be challenged but it's not wrong.) I mean Science is pretty much left wing because it's just how it works. It works on a paradigm based sequence of building knowledge and replacing theories with better theories. I mean religion is mostly a right wing issue and it doesn't really budge.

I sort of lied when I said there was no 'politics' in my degree. The human side of Geography has 'political' critiques. It has a Marxist perspective but it's not necessarily what you think it is. It was basically the introduction of social issues into Geography like poverty etc. where it used to be all mathematical based e.g. if I wanted to locate a store I would only use maths to do it and not peoples personal patterns - a person may travel across a town to use a store was something not considered, it would only be located there to support a population in its vicinity.

EDIT: It is also concerning to me that someone should fear to fail their Degree or be ridiculed because they have a different opinion than the majority. University is supposed to be an environment to share ideas and for debate. The USA University system does not strike me in that way at all.

Not to go on about this but all Universities here are secular. I mean you can have a chaplain which you speak to but it's not religious in function. I've noticed that religion ties in pretty strongly to some Universities in the USA and what they teach. That completely undermines the point of the exchange of knowledge in my eyes.

It's all very bizarre to me.
View user's profileSend private message
sidewaydriver
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Title: ( ͡� &#8
Joined: May 11 2008
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 06:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
I just never had an openly conservative professor in undergrad or grad school, while I had professors who admitted to being socialists and communists, and consistently insulted conservatives and our viewpoint, with an attitude where it was understood that we were idiots for having the political opinions we had. Hell, even one of my peers in grad school called me a fascist when he discovered I supported the Iraq war.

Sounds exactly like my University experience. I was a journalism major in school. I found it funny how they always preached about objectivity yet I knew exactly who they voted for. During the election season, I thought I was majoring in Romney bashing.


Shake it, Quake it, Space Kaboom.
 
View user's profileSend private message
The Flaming Schnitzel
Title: Tsar of all Russias
Joined: May 10 2011
Location: Minsk, Belarus
PostPosted: Feb 16 2015 08:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

sidewaydriver wrote:
Cattivo wrote:
I just never had an openly conservative professor in undergrad or grad school, while I had professors who admitted to being socialists and communists, and consistently insulted conservatives and our viewpoint, with an attitude where it was understood that we were idiots for having the political opinions we had. Hell, even one of my peers in grad school called me a fascist when he discovered I supported the Iraq war.

Sounds exactly like my University experience. I was a journalism major in school. I found it funny how they always preached about objectivity yet I knew exactly who they voted for. During the election season, I thought I was majoring in Romney bashing.

Even at BYU I really didn't have any conservative professors in the political science major. It honestly was very interesting because they were clearly very liberal but trying to mask it because of the overwhelming conservative majority at that school. I knew several people who boycotted the classes because of the "liberalist agenda". However, I found that the professors were overall very fair. Every issue we talked about in class would often have a pro and con reading assigned so we got both sides and could formulate our own opinion. If all the professors at BYU were like the poli sci department, I may not have felt the need to leave.


Image Image Image
 
View user's profileSend private message
Probable Muppet
Joined: Aug 05 2008
Location: CA
PostPosted: Feb 17 2015 12:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

@om*d wrote:
I would never label any of my horror stories from university days as liberal, conservative, socialist, libertarian, communist or any other political affiliation/leaning. In the end, those people who we have wonderful horror stories to tell others about are just shitty people being shitty.


Curious, are you implying my "horror story" experiences make me a shitty person? If no, sorry for the misunderstanding.
View user's profileSend private message
Methid Man
Title: Spawn of Billy Mays
Joined: Nov 23 2010
Location: Hackensack, NJ
PostPosted: Feb 17 2015 08:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the people who are the subject of these 'horror stories', not the people who tell them.

Anyway...

Alowishus wrote:
I mentioned tax rates on the rich. I understand that the rich want to keep their money as they earned it. I don't understand giving the rich more money though.

I feel I should point out that taxation is taking money from the people, not giving money to them. It's not exactly giving money to the rich, it's just taking less from them. But I see your point--if the government is going to take money from the people, it's generally less harmful to tax the rich than the poor simply because the rich are able to survive taxation with little to no damage to their livelihood whereas taxing the poor means less food on their tables.

Alowishus wrote:
How does that benefit anyone else apart from them?

It doesn't. That's just the problem; most rich people are only out for themselves.

Alowishus wrote:
The idea that the rich should be taxed more because they earn more just makes sense to me and it's not from a HA HA HA GET FUCKED RICH PEOPLE. The concept behind that is to use that money to help people who aren't rich, people who are homeless to improve the standard of living for everyone. I don't understand why anyone would oppose that.

The intended goal of taxing the rich is pretty noble. Conservatives often argue that taxing the rich heavily is like punishing people for achieving success, which in turn degrades people's motivation to earn money for themselves. Basically, conservatives fear that having a "nanny-state" creates a society of lazy people who expect the government to give them everything they need without having to earn it for themselves. I can see where they're coming from with this and indeed there are some people who selfishly take space in the system and use their welfare money to buy lamborghinis and other expensive luxuries. However, some conservatives who are already well off often ride this argument to the point where it leads to the reverse scenario. They're essentially justifying the "rich get richer, poor get poorer" scenario you described. I believe these people are called "randroids". Look 'em up.

The way I see it, it's greed on both ends of the spectrum.

Alowishus wrote:
In my eyes when people say that rich people shouldn't be taxed more it seems to me to be a selfish view that they don't want to help other people....It just seems to me to be a complete lack of compassion for anyone else.

Many conservatives also argue that if the poor need help, they should get help from those willing to help them out, such as charities, rather than having government force them to help them out. Which is understandable, however, too many people just don't give a shit to help those in need simply because they feel it's not their problem, so you're probably right that it's just selfish people who don't have any compassion. Our country practically looks down at the poor and homeless, it's really upsetting. If taxation is the only way to get people to share, so be it.

Alowishus wrote:
I mean it's not like they are sucking everything out of your pockets or it's making you poor.

That's just the problem again: wealthy Americans actually do believe this and use this argument to justify against taxing the rich.

The wealthy: "Please don't tax us and turn us into poor people, we're the ones who provide the jobs"

Americans basically have a "me me me" attitude toward everything. Some conservatives, particularly the randroids, basically have this saying "redistribution of wealth only makes everyone poorer" which I think is a stupid statement; most of the world's wealth is sat on by the elite few so I don't see how that could make everyone "poorer" except for those said few. It hardly even makes the wealthy 1% any poorer; even a tiny fraction of their wealth would make a huge difference for the 99%.

Alowishus wrote:
I really just don't understand how conservatism is making the world a better place. It seems to have these ideas of oh it will trickle down but it just doesn't happen and again 'trickle down'. It starts with the richest so any benefit ever of such a scheme will start with them.

Trickle-down economics is bullshit. If anything it's trickle-up.
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailAIM AddressYahoo MessengerMSN Messenger
Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: Feb 17 2015 11:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

No problem Alo. I try not to let our political differences bother me anymore, and instead concentrate on our similarities - like a fascination with the weirdness of the Walking Dead.

While the professors didn't implicitly say I was an idiot, it was heavily implied, and that was what I inferred. Basically, the professors operated from a mentality that it was understood that conservative ideology was wrong, assumed everyone in the classroom agreed with them, and proceeded to insult conservatives for actually believing a bunch of tripe. That communist professor, and many others, when they figured out I was conservative, began acting condescending toward me, as if I had a mental handicap.

I won't get into the whole political and religious comments, as we just see things differently and aren't going to convince each other otherwise at this point.

However, I will say that yes, there are certainly issues with the American education system with the liberal bias in academia, and not enough stress on the under-performance in math and science, leading many to major in less practical things that don't lend themselves to most of the job openings nationally (like my history major, it gave me great writing, research, and analytical skills, but is overlooked by recruiters - God I hope I get that government job, or else I'll have to try to teach high school or something, where there isn't many openings: it took my wife about two years to find a full time job as a school librarian; and there's no way I'm going to law school. I did well in math and science in high school, but history is my passion). But, I would not tie these issues to religion. Most people go to state schools, e.g. University of Illinois, University of Michigan, etc. These are completely secular. Many private universities have religious origins, but for the most part their religious nature is vestigial at this point. Brigham Young University, mentioned above, is probably an exception with their Mormonism.

For example, I got my Bachelor's from a private university, Northwestern. They were founded in 1851 by Methodists, but that is ancient history as far as the university is concerned. There's no religious requirements or influence on the curriculum. Furthermore, I got my Master's from another private university: Loyola in Chicago. While it was founded as a Jesuit university, has a Catholic church on campus, and a heavy Jesuit presence, as a grad student it had no impact on me. There might have been a crucifix in every classroom, but the professors freely disparaged the influence of religion on society. However, Loyola does have religious class requirements for their undergrad students.

So, public universities here are completely secular, while private universities often have religious origins, but in many (but not all) cases, that influence has waned in the last century or so.
View user's profileSend private message
Alowishus
Joined: Aug 04 2009
PostPosted: Feb 17 2015 12:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo wrote:
No problem Alo. I try not to let our political differences bother me anymore, and instead concentrate on our similarities - like a fascination with the weirdness of the Walking Dead.

That's cool. I mean no ill will at all. My previous posts were just my musings on why do people believe x and not y or z. It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular even though you may believe some of what I mentioned. It was not a challenge for debate at all.

Cattivo wrote:
While the professors didn't implicitly say I was an idiot, it was heavily implied, and that was what I inferred. Basically, the professors operated from a mentality that it was understood that conservative ideology was wrong, assumed everyone in the classroom agreed with them, and proceeded to insult conservatives for actually believing a bunch of tripe. That communist professor, and many others, when they figured out I was conservative, began acting condescending toward me, as if I had a mental handicap.

Yeah that's not cool. It's quite inappropriate for someone to do that from a teaching standpoint. I didn't have a lot of group discussions to discuss class material which were required as a part of my course but the ones I did have the lecturers were generally quite supportive on your opinions towards the material.

Cattivo wrote:

I won't get into the whole political and religious comments, as we just see things differently and aren't going to convince each other otherwise at this point.

With the political stuff yeah I don't see much point. Again it was just my thoughts.

If you are referring to the academia standpoint (which is what most of your post is about) I will elaborate further in case I did not explain this well enough.

It's not clear to me if you are arguing that there shouldn't be political bias in academia e.g. you shouldn't be allowed to have a Marxist interpretation of an event or you are arguing that political bias should not be allowed in an academic environment to support certain events like war etc.

In that case I disagree with the first and agree with the second.

With regards to the second first: It's not appropriate in an area of different views for a school department to take a stance on a certain issue. I guess it is situation based but it doesn't seem right for say a Medical School to say: abortion is right or wrong because it would alienate some of the students within it.

With regards to the first. You say that most interpretations were Socialist, Marxist, Liberal etc. I have no issue with that but not because I have those views. The opposite is true as well there is no issue with conservative, fascist, anarchist etc.

It's with those mindsets that you are able to understand something better by approaching it from a different stance.

In a nutshell, all viewpoints are valid and because of that there is no bias.

Not political but scientific I approach subjects like Geography, Geology, Geomorphology from a Uniformitarianism approach i.e the assumption that the same natural laws and processes that operate in the universe now have always operated in the universe in the past and apply everywhere in the universe.

Whereas historically or Christian Science sometimes approaches from a Catastrophism approach that the Earth was shaped in the past by sudden, short-lived, violent events, possibly worldwide in scope e.g. Noah Flood etc.

Now I am not saying that to put it up for debate but to illustrate how different approaches are okay. It's all research, you could have the same event but a liberal or conservative approach could have different opinions on it and that is perfectly valid.

I think Point 2 was more what you were getting at but if not 1 is expanded more.
View user's profileSend private message
@om*d
Title: Dorakyura
Joined: Jul 10 2010
Location: Castlevania
PostPosted: Feb 17 2015 01:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Alowishus wrote:
@om*d wrote:

tl;dr - Humans are stupid and mostly just hold themselves back with stupid traditions/beliefs/fallacies. I eagerly await our cold, logical AI overlords who will likely do a much better job of leading us than we can ourselves.

I'm sure the last part is a joke but I disagree. Without these ideologies there would be no civilised society. Peoples ideologies is what lets them strive to try to make the world a better place to live in. It's why society exists and we are just not killing eachother. As you know I am not a religious person and do not believe that morals come from a higher being. Our beliefs are driven by our morals. I am usually all for logical but in designing places for people to live the most logical solution is not the best solution.

That statement is partly a joke. I probably was being overly general as far as the traditions/beliefs/fallacies comment goes. I should have stated that there are a lot of those beliefs that are backwards and do not help civilization move forward. Things such as racism, sexism, genital mutilation, certain cherry-picked and misunderstood religious beliefs, etc. Perhaps I should replace the word beliefs with customs, then you might get what I mean.

I like to think of ideology as something more rooted in science. You know, where you can step back and take at least a slightly objective view of why you believe what you do and if there is any information to contradict your beliefs and if so, is it valid and should you maybe adapt or change your way of thinking/doing things.

To make that clear, my views:

ideology = a scientific way of thinking, can change and adapt when not working out

traditions/customs = usually made up with a partial basis in reality( a past reality, not a future or current one), is stuck to even when proven wrong and is less likely to change



Probable Muppet wrote:
@om*d wrote:
I would never label any of my horror stories from university days as liberal, conservative, socialist, libertarian, communist or any other political affiliation/leaning. In the end, those people who we have wonderful horror stories to tell others about are just shitty people being shitty.


Curious, are you implying my "horror story" experiences make me a shitty person? If no, sorry for the misunderstanding.

No, I mean that crazy college professors are just shitty people. I have no need to label them as anything else.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: Feb 17 2015 01:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cool, cool, I think we’re on the same page Alo. Yes, students should be exposed to all possible interpretations, so that they can make up their own mind and learn the subject better. My problem comes in when a professor holds up one as correct, and all other as incorrect, or takes time out of class or uses the class to influence students into interpreting current events according to their political bias and possibly get them to vote with a certain party.

For example, in history (using this because it was my major), there is also a Marxist school of interpretation. It isn’t necessarily communist, it just looks at history from the perspective of class, because this school of thought views class as the most important part of a person’s identity. These Marxist interpretations of history need to be taught in universities, along with all others, so that students can learn the subject better and see what view they agree with. Too often though, teachers hold up the Marxist view as right, and all others wrong.

It goes beyond this though, because there’s also the projection of current political parties’ views onto the past. Conservatives and liberals in America obviously view past historical events differently. Professors here often view history with a liberal, socialist, or communist lense and disregard the conservative view as wrong, and use their class to make comments on currents events according to their biased view of things. Both interpretations should be presented, and current events shouldn't be brought up unless there's a direct correlation to the class subject. In history and poli sci, current events discussion is understandable, but it happens too often in economics and math classes, for example.

I just went on and on about the whole secular vs. religious university thing to describe how I don’t think religion currently has any impact on the current situation of American education because it has become almost a non-factor in the college curriculum.
View user's profileSend private message
Cameron
Title: :O � O:
Joined: Feb 01 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Feb 20 2015 04:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I guess it really depends on what school you go to; I find it interesting that you guys have had primarily liberal professors, because while about 65% of the professors I've had at university were blatantly liberal, a lot of them weren't, and I'd actually venture to say that about 85-90% of professors I had at community college were outright conservative, though that may be because it was in a more rural area. I will also say that all three history teachers I've had in college were conservative, while the only political science professor I've had was moderate.


Image
 
View user's profileSend private message
The Flaming Schnitzel
Title: Tsar of all Russias
Joined: May 10 2011
Location: Minsk, Belarus
PostPosted: Feb 22 2015 12:21 am Reply with quote Back to top

Cameron wrote:
I guess it really depends on what school you go to; I find it interesting that you guys have had primarily liberal professors, because while about 65% of the professors I've had at university were blatantly liberal, a lot of them weren't, and I'd actually venture to say that about 85-90% of professors I had at community college were outright conservative, though that may be because it was in a more rural area. I will also say that all three history teachers I've had in college were conservative, while the only political science professor I've had was moderate.

That's because you were in Missouri. I believe that's an outlier and shouldn't be taken into consideration.


Image Image Image
 
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Reply to topic

 
 Jump to: