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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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Thanks for reminding me of Ray, as I didn't mention it before.
The fight with the Metal Gear Rays was stupid and pointless. In the first game, you stand absolutely no chance against ONE Metal Gear Rex until Grey Fox shows up and sacrifices himself in order for you to beat Liquid.
In this game, you fight 3 Metal GearRays at once which is a much easier battle, however if you wait too long in between killing them, they respawn.
So for an absolute killing machine, these Rays seem pretty pointless if multiple ones can be taken down by one person without much effort.
And another thing, why couldn't it be just one Ray? Why did we need to fight multiples? That actually takes away from the cool factor to me, because when you add more to the mix, you're forced to dumb shit down. If you had to fight 3 Rex's at the end of MGS1, you would've stood no chance. So instead of giving me 3 mediocre Rays, why not give me 1 good Ray that has a chance of kicking my ass? I'm not joking when I say I only used one ration on Hard with this fucking thing. Again, less would've been more.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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I can understand and somewhat agree with you complaints. However:
Otacon : Too true. Okay, Snake, let's get to work. You know the technical
specs of Metal Gear were sold on the black market after Shadow
Moses?
Snake : All Ocelot's doing...
Otacon : Exactly. And now every state, group, and dotcom has its own
version of Metal Gear.
Snake : Not exactly a classified weapon for today's nuclear powers.
Otacon : This new one seems to have been designed to wipe the floor with
all the other models. The only consistent description is that
it's an amphibious, anti-Metal Gear vehicle...
Snake : That explains why this one is under Marine Corps jurisdiction.
It was designed as an anti-Metal Gear vehical and not anti personel. Which means the majority of it's weapons are designed for knocking down big targets. Like if a soldier went up against a M1A1 Abrams main battle tank. The tank's main weapon is a 120 MM cannon. Not something designed for quickly loading, targeting, and firing at ground troops. Now, give the lone soldier a AT-4 Shoulder Mounted Missle Launcher and all the ammo he wants. Now, if the soldier is out in the open, odds are the tank will maul him, with a single shot with a HEAT round that only has to hit close to him, or the tanks .50 calibur machine gun will cut him in half. Now set that lone soldier on top of a battleship owned by the same side as the tank. Is the tank still going to fire it full compliment at that soldier and risk damaging or destroying his own battleship? The solider doesn't have that problem, as he happily fires away with the AT-4.
This is the only way I can justify the battle against the RAYs. Since for one, you are standing on Arsenal Gear, and the Rays were built to protect AG, I don't think they would so keen to blow a hole through it just to kill you. Not to mention that Soldius and Ocelot are also standing on the deck, and not too far away from you.
Also, the RAY was mass produced. I believe the original would be a good equal to REX, but not the mass produced clones. They were likely built by the lowest bidder. Remember Ocelot/Liquid stole the original RAY, and keeps it for himself. He also get's away in it at the end of the AG battle.
And, the final and most important fact: The US designed and built RAY. Otacon designed REX. The US only slapped a Nuke and a Rail-Gun onto it. And, if that dude can also invent octo-camoflauge and all the other toys Snake uses throughout the series, then he is above and beyond the design curve and a is mad genius.
It would be like a selfmade airplane race between The Wright Brothers and Howard Hughes.
| Quote: |
| Metal Gear REX has near-impenetrable compound armor, a pair of 30 mm vulcan cannons, anti-tank missiles, and a free-electron laser, to protect itself from conventional forces. Its primary weapon, however, is a magnetic railgun capable of delivering an untraceable nuclear warhead anywhere in the world, without the propellant trail or launch flare that gives away the launch position of a traditional ballistic missile. Because of its sealed, one-man cockpit and thick armor, its sensors are concentrated in a radome on the left side of its body; this radome is very vulnerable to attack, and destroying it effectively blinds the REX unit, forcing the cockpit to open. In this state, the REX is vulnerable as its controls can be easily destroyed (In Metal Gear Solid, Otacon states that this was intentional, declaring that nothing can be complete without a "character flaw"). |
| Quote: |
RAY differs from previous Metal Gears in that it is not a nuclear launch platform, but instead a weapon of conventional warfare, originally designed to hunt down and destroy the many derivatives of Metal Gear REX that became common after the leak of the REX plans following the events of Shadow Moses. It is designed to be even more maneuverable and flexible in deployment than the REX, and can operate both on land and in the water. While RAY has a pair of machine guns and six missile tubes to defend itself from more conventional battlefield threats, its primary weapon is a powerful water jet cutter, which can cut through heavily-armored foes, such as Metal Gear REX derivatives.
The Metal Gear RAY is more organic than previous models, both in appearance and in function. Its streamlined shape helps to deflect enemy fire and allows for greater maneuverability both on land and in water. Its interior workings are also somewhat organic, as it has artificial fibers that contract when electricity is applied, much like natural muscle, instead of typical hydraulics; this pseudo-muscle tissue makes it very maneuverable. It also has a nervous-system-like network of conductive nanotubes, which connect the widely dispersed sensor systems and relay commands from the cockpit to the various parts of RAY's body, automatically bypassing damaged systems and rerouting to auxiliary systems when needed. Another feature is its blood-like armor-repair nanopaste, which is secreted from valves and coagulates wherever the exterior surface is damaged. Particularly unusual is its "face", with two "eyes" and a gaping "mouth", only seen when the head armor is removed. The armor on Metal Gear RAY's exterior is made of a highly advanced Ceramic-Titanium Alloy. However, there appear to be weak points, as Solidus Snake is able to disable a number of RAY models with a FN P90.
In the prologue of Metal Gear Solid 2 (the Tanker chapter), it is stolen by Revolver Ocelot while being transported in a disguised oil tanker. The version that was housed on the tanker (which is an operational prototype) is labeled "MARINES", has a cockpit (accommodating a single pilot) and a long tail. The RAY is an amphibious craft which allows for maneuverability on land and at sea: the long tail is intended for balance while making leaps or operating underwater. The entirety of the forward interior of the cockpit is a heads-up display, allowing the pilot to look around as if there were no obstruction between him and the battlefield.
After the events of the Tanker chapter in Metal Gear Solid 2, Revolver Ocelot delivers the stolen prototype RAY to The Patriots, an Illuminati-esque organization secretly running the United States. Under their direction, the unit is redesigned for control by the AI known as "GW" in defense of Arsenal Gear, which the player confronts as Raiden during the Plant chapter. The Arsenal Gear has a force of slave RAYs ready for immediate deployment against any possible threats. The mass-production RAYs lack the tail of the prototype, have rounded knees and have only one sensory input or "eye" instead of two like the prototype version, and are labeled "U.S. NAVY". They are also painted in an olive-drab camouflage pattern.
In Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, Liquid Ocelot pilots a modified version of the stolen Metal Gear RAY prototype, which exhibits a combination of both the prototype and mass-production models' characteristics: it now has rounded knees and lacks a tail, similar to the mass-production model, but retain RAY's two "eyes", a cockpit for manual control, and greyish-blue coloring. It is labeled "OUTER HAVEN". Despite being an anti-REX Metal Gear, it was immobilized during a battle with a handicapped REX. Additional mass-production RAYs, likely controlled by GW once again, appear in the climactic battle sequence between Outer Haven and the USS Missouri. |
Now this is all self justification. And, wouldn't be nessicary if you only had to fight the one RAY, and the battle was as epic as the battle with REX. But, I believe the whole point was in the game quote above. They wanted you to know how the world has changed after Shadow Moses, and that Metal Gears were now as common as earlier said M1A1 Abrahms.
I just also was thiking about it more, and it may have to do with the weapons available to Snake as well. He was using a Stinger Missle Launcher against REX. Which is designed for Ground to Air attacks. The missles are designed to be fast enought to catch a jet and most of the missle is dedicated to fuel and tracking systems to catch a jet. There's not a lot of warhead on those. And, there doesn't need to be. Jets are pretty fragile.
Now by the time of MGS2, and the fact that Metal Gears are commonplace, then it stands to reason that there would be missle warheads would be designed specifically for anti-Metal Gear operations. They would be more like a AT-4 missile, which is designed for punching a hole through thick armor with a concentrated shaped charge.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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Warhead or not, Ray was a joke. Yes, they might be commonplace, but that doesn't make up for the fact that Ray was just a silly fight, that happened for no reason at all. If Ray doesn't have a warhead, why does Raiden need to destroy it? The Patriots already had Ocelot steal the Marine's Ray and if there so commonplace, it just seemed like a pointless "epic" fight. Something was on the line if Rex defeated you, Liquid could launch the warhead, so what happens here? If Raiden fails to destroy Ray, it doesn't matter because this whole fucking thing was a simulation to destroy GW. See what I mean by this not making any fucking sense? And why is a simulation needed to destroy GW, if GW is just a computer program, then why can't they just get Emma to do it, why is there needing to be a critical disaster scenario in order for this to happen? The Patriots are fucking stupid.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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lol this is funny. you are looking WAY too deep into this. i understand your gripes and concerns, but if you dont like the game, then thats cool. just say that.
MGS2, i could take it or leave it
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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Ba'al
Title: Zerg Zergling
Joined: Mar 02 2008
Location: Uranus
Posts: 2286
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MGS4's more fan-servicey and attempting to be epic than MGS2.
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Deadmau_5pra
Title: Amatuer film/podcaster
Joined: Feb 10 2009
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1126
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People consider MGS2 the first "postmodern" game, simple because of the themes. Dabbling with stuff from Artificial intelligence to political conspiracies, the manipulation of free will, to the cyberpunk stuff.
Me personally, I think that's a little too much too add into an action game (not saying it doesn't belong, it's just MGS is the kind of series just seems to be more straightforward and to the point type.) and that’s were people disliked it because of it. But at the same time, it worked because It got a lot of people into the series.
MGS2 is the first game I ever beat on the PS2 so….It holds a special place in my heart.
Still waiting to play MGS3.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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Again, I don't hate the game...and like Spra...it was the first game I beat for PS2, however I just think it was such a departure from the first game, which made a shit-ton more sense than the second game.
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PJX
Joined: Jun 20 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 408
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First game i beat for ps2 i think was Zone Of The Enders and in MGS2 there's a box with the Z.O.E logo on it. I like little touches like that as i'm easily pleased.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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I bought ZOE simply for the MGS2 demo, that's how excited I was about the game.
And, I think I put way more hours into the demo, then I did playing ZOE.
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Andrew Man
Title: Is a Funklord
Joined: Jan 30 2007
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 5603
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| Knyte wrote: |
I bought ZOE simply for the MGS2 demo, that's how excited I was about the game.
And, I think I put way more hours into the demo, then I did playing ZOE. |
I am in the exact same boat. Fortunately ZOE turned out to be a pretty good game.
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http://www.facebook.com/hellodharmaband
3DS is very good, and Wii U!
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PJX
Joined: Jun 20 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 408
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| Andrew Man wrote: |
| Knyte wrote: |
I bought ZOE simply for the MGS2 demo, that's how excited I was about the game.
And, I think I put way more hours into the demo, then I did playing ZOE. |
I am in the exact same boat. Fortunately ZOE turned out to be a pretty good game. |
It's a lot of fun while it lasts. I think i completed it in one sitting!
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Greg the White
Joined: Apr 09 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3112
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I've played all of the main games (only completed MGS2), and the problem I have is the fact that they've got some great possibility for good gameplay, but squander it for Kojima's awful writing. The gameplay typically has great animation, tight controls, and balanced stealth gameplay. The problem is you rarely get time to play the fargin' things because Kojima's too busy whacking himself off with a typewriter. The writing is far too verbose, there are too many plot twists (so the impact of twists are lessened, defeating the point of doing a twist in the first place), and (much like Capcom does) the most interesting stealth/action moments are reserved for the cutscenes. I'll give the writer(s) the compliment that they have created fairly good protagonists, most of whom are well-rounded and sympathetic.
It just kills me that I can look at a guard, and do a bunch of things to get by him, like shoot out his radio and then hit him with a stealth attack, or pop him in the knee and watch him crumple to the ground, but once I pass into the next room, I have to watch an ungodly long cutscene with twice as much dialogue as is necessary where a huge firefight will break out, then I cross a room without enemies, and just have the same thing happen.
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 So here's to you Mrs. Robinson. People love you more- oh, nevermind. |
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docinsano
Title: Boner King
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: Mpls Mini Soda
Posts: 2314
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The best part of the game is getting to run around bare-ass naked.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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| docinsano wrote: |
| The best part of the game is getting to run around bare-ass naked. |
The best part of the game is the "Tanker - Chapter". I would have happily paid $60 just for that.
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Ice2SeeYou
Title: Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Joined: Sep 28 2008
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 1761
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Out of curiousity, WTF was the deal with that part of the Tanker chapter where you see a silouette of Vulcan Raven, then realize it's just a doll with a light cast over it? Then if you knock it over, a bunch of little ball-bearings start popping out of it?
I remember trying to wait and see if anything happens if you stand around and let the ball bearings build up, but I always got too bored. If it's just supposed to be an Easter Egg, it's one of the more bizarre Easter Eggs I've ever seen.
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Doddsino
Joined: Oct 01 2009
Posts: 5316
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It was just something that had nothing to do with anything, much like a large majority of this game.
And I can't really consider it an Easter Egg, since it wasn't hidden or anything, you're obligated to find it. It's like Kojima knew how badly this game sucked compared to the first one, and kept trying to hint at it, which was probably why he decided to just rip off the first game altogether.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
Posts: 16136
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a thousand? if i count them and i only come up w/998 you are soooo gonna get it
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| Klimbatize wrote: |
| I'll eat a turkey sandwich while blowing my load |
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IceWarm
Joined: Dec 22 2008
Location: Breckenridge, Colorado
Posts: 1691
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| Ice2SeeYou wrote: |
| Out of curiousity, WTF was the deal with that part of the Tanker chapter where you see a silouette of Vulcan Raven, then realize it's just a doll with a light cast over it? Then if you knock it over, a bunch of little ball-bearings start popping out of it? |
It is probably a reference to the McFarlane action figures from the original Metal Gear Solid. In 1999 McFarlane released a line of figures from the first game and it looks like Kojima was making a joke with the Vulcan Raven action figure. Also some of the cardboard boxes in MGS2 are from McFarlane. McFarlane also did the figures for MGS2.
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