SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic

Posted: Feb 02 2012 07:33 am

Jeebus, refused to give me an answer on this, and threatened to punch me if I ever tried it, so I'll ask it here:

What happens if I drop Mycosynth Lattice and Titania's Song?

I mean, aside from wiping out everyone's lands, doesn't this create a huge logic problem? Titania's Song can't be both an enchantment that causes all noncreature artifacts to lose all abilities and become vanilla creatures equal to their casting cost and be a noncreature artifact that has lost all abilities and become a vanilla 4/4... can it?

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Feb 02 2012 04:13 pm

I think "If you try that, I'll punch you" is indeed the right answer. Fucking dependencies.

But in an attempt to find the correct answer...Google brings up an answer which was correct a year ago and may still be now - type-changing effects happen in Layer 4, and both the Lattice and Song are trying to change types there. Since the Song's effect is dependent on the Lattice's effect, first all permanents become artifacts, then they all become creatures. Then the rest of the Song's abilities are applied in the appropriate layer. Yes, this does mean that the Song will somehow have no abilities, yet apply it's abilities.

Try here, third question down.

Posted: Feb 10 2012 01:41 pm

Ok, I have 3 related questions:

First, say I have a Phyrexian Metamorph out that's a copy of Vorapede. I'm 99% sure the Metamorph has 5 CMC at this point right?

If that's the case, I sac my Metamorph/Vorapede to Birthing Pod and get a Massacre Wurm. What order do the 2 creatures come into play? Will I be able to get a +1/+1 Massacre Wurm copy when the Metamorph comes back?

If that works and I get double Massacre Wurms, will my opponent's X/1 and X/2 creatures immediately go to the graveyard after the 1st Massacre Wurm comes into play or will they stick around long enough for the second copy to arrive causing my opponent to lose 4 life each?

Thanks for your help! I'm gonna play a deck with this at FNM tonight and I want to know my options.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Feb 10 2012 05:04 pm

1 - Yes. It copies the creature's mana cost.

2 - What happens is, you activate the Birthing Pod's ability, paying all costs. The ability goes on the stack. Then, the Undying trigger goes on the stack on top of it, and will resolve first. So it will come back before your Pod resolves and you won't be able to choose the Wurm to copy.

3 - Assuming you did get 2 of them in play at the same time somehow, they would both be in play when the 2-toughness creatures die. They'd lose 4 life for each one. Your opponent's creatures stay in play until the Wurm's ETB trigger resolves, and you can respond to that trigger.

Posted: Mar 19 2012 09:39 pm

This came up in a casual game during my con:

Guy brought out a random creature with Diabolic Servitude. I proceeded to kill it when he responded by casting Undying Evil. He then claimed that undying would bring the creature back from the exiled zone since undying doesn't state if it cares what state the creature would wind up returning from.

I say bullshit.
He says because both fall under the same clause of "when the creature dies," he can decide what order it occurs.

Was he blowing smoke or is that how it really works?

Posted: Mar 19 2012 10:31 pm

The way Diabolic Servitude is worded on Gatherer, the creature dies, then it's exiled. So Undying Evil might work.

Posted: Mar 20 2012 09:02 am

So. I'm pretty sure he's right. He can bring back the creature with Undying Evil. But if he does, Diabolic Servitude goes to the graveyard. The creature dies. The DS trigger goes onto the stack. He can respond with Undying Evil.

Then the DS trigger resolves. Since the dead creature no longer exists to exile, the DS trigger fails and DS stays in the graveyard.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Mar 20 2012 11:46 am

Syd and your opponent are pretty much right, aside from some technicalities. What happens is, both the Servitude and the Undying trigger, and he can choose which order they go on the stack. The order does matter.

If he lets Undying resolve first, the creature will return to the battlefield with the counter. Then, the Servitude trigger will resolve and do as much as it can - it can't exile the creature anymore (it's a new object when it pops back into the battlefield) but it will go back to his hand (I don't see at all where the graveyard comes into play). Nothing will be exiled by the Servitude's "leave play" trigger either.

If he lets the Servitude trigger resolve first, the creature is exiled and Servitude goes back to your hand. Then Undying resolves and it does NOT pull the creature out of the exile zone, since it is a new object. Your opponent probably doesn't want to do it this way.

Posted: Mar 20 2012 02:50 pm

"When the creature put onto to the battlefield with DS leaves play, exile it and return DS to its owner's hand."

Since it can't meet both conditions, it doesn't meet either.

Posted: Mar 22 2012 03:49 am

Incorrect. Diabolic Servitude's ability isn't conditional. It would have to say "[exile the creature]. If you do, return Diabolic Servitude to its owner's hand." As it's worded, the trigger goes on the stack, and when it resolves it will go in order trying to do each part. It will attempt to exile it, fail, then return DS to your hand. No reason the other part would fizzle.

Posted: May 30 2012 08:47 am

1. If I draw a sorcery Miracle as my first card of an opponent's turn, can I still cast it at Instant speed for the Miracle cost?

2. I've got Tamiyo out and used Liquimetal Coating on here. Then I use Karn, Silver Golem/Karn's Touch/Toymaker/Etc. Since Tamiyo is now an artifact creature planeswalker, if I use Experiment Kraj's ability, will it then be able to access loyalty abilities? I realize I'll have to use the +N abilities for a while first.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: May 30 2012 08:57 am

1 - Yes. The Miracle ability's trigger gives you permission to cast the spell. Note that not only is this true on your turn as well, this is your only chance to actually cast the spell for the Miracle cost - if you get the trigger resolve without casting the spell, you unreveal it and need to pay full price.

2 - Yep. Kraj can only use one loyalty ability a turn, though.

Posted: Jun 04 2012 05:09 am

Late to the party and Usa is correct, but remember you will be required to animate Tamiyo every subsequent turn if you want to have Kraj use one of her abilities.

Posted: Jun 04 2012 02:11 pm

What happens when you enchant a creature with both "Treacherous Link" & "Pariah"?

http://magiccards.info/ul/en/71.html
http://magiccards.info/10e/en/33.html

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jun 04 2012 02:19 pm

Not a whole lot, actually, or at least not what you expect. When you have a replacement effect (something that replaces one action with another), you only apply that effect once per instance. So, say you control the enchanted creature, and you get Bolted. Pariah replaces the damage by redirecting it to the creature. Then Treacherous Link now applies, and sends it right back to the controller (You, in this case). Pariah's effect has already applied, so it does nothing further, and you take 3.

Same deal if you zap the creature - it takes the long road up to you and back, but it still nails the creature.

If a situation does show up where there's a loop that neither player can end, the game is a draw.

Posted: Jun 04 2012 02:20 pm

If you put both auras on an opponent's creature, then any damage you suffer will go right to the creature's controller. I'll need to remember that one for some EDH fun.
But if you put both auras on your own creature...Edit: A judge friend told me that whatever effect is newer on the creature becomes the only working effect.

Posted: Feb 24 2018 12:23 am

*poke*

So I've gotten my roommate lured back into playing and we ran into an issue. He's running a Kaalia of the Vast EDH deck and doesn't understand the distinction between attacking and being declared as an attacker. For one example, he used her ability to bring out Aurelia and responds to the sad truth with "So I don't get a second attack phase with Aurelia the Warleader even though she's attacking?"

What is the simplest, most succinct way of explaining the distinction to him? I once tried saying that "When [creature] attacks" only triggers when the creature is declared is as an attacker and his response was "Then why doesn't it say it like that?"

As idiotic as it sounds outloud, should I just say "It's an attacking creature, not an 'attacks' creature." ?

Posted: May 04 2018 04:59 pm

I think the easiest way to explain it is that for a creature to trigger a "when it attacks" ability, it has to already be in play at the declare attackers stage of combat. Which it sounds like you already did, so I don't know.

It sounds like maybe the bigger issue is that he doesn't understand triggered abilities.

You could also explain to him that while this particular instance is frustrating, there are actually benefits to creatures entering the battlefield attacking. A creature that enters attacking doesn't have to pay additional costs such as Propaganda and can skirt restrictions like Moat and Stormtide Leviathan.