SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic

Posted: Apr 25 2012 03:38 pm

I would like to also agree that DALNet is pretty terrible. I really like SynIRC, which has NickServ and VHOST, as does Coldfront (which is the one Fig alluded to in the OP).

I understand people might want to stay with DALNet due to nostalgia, but I would think that a functional product is preferable to a broken one.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Can someone please point me towards documentation on the type of IRC service that is being hosted by Shardea.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Please add SSL access to the list of things tested on any alternative servers.

SSL is a requirement for me if it is true IRC.

Posted: Apr 25 2012 06:03 pm

GPFontaine wrote:

Please add SSL access to the list of things tested on any alternative servers.
SSL is a requirement for me if it is true IRC.

It's not my server, I'm a de facto admin... it's my brother's server.
It's running InspIRCD.
SSL isn't running, but it will be soon. Est. downtime for adding it: ~20 seconds.
They're not getting an officially signed certificate, though; that has a pretty steep cost. I'll personally make sure they follow the regulations.

(Still better than DALnet's connection time.)

Posted: Apr 25 2012 06:45 pm

Fernin wrote:

Yes, disconnects and netsplits will happen on any network, but they won't happen with as insane of a frequency. Folks on Shardea's Frogbox server haven't disconnected once in the week since they went over to test it, and the same can be true of many other larger networks as well. DALnet is one of the worst networks out there right now as far as stability goes, other networks, even larger ones, don't disconnect people nearly as often.

I can vouch for this, I was one of the people who checked it out briefly. I've determined that my many disconnects are only happening on DALnet.

Posted: Apr 25 2012 06:55 pm

I'm down with moving if everyone else thinks it's a good idea. I'd say I definitely have less of a netsplit problem than our good friend Klimbatize does, but if the service can be improved then that's cool with me.

Title: Hugh Joined: Sep 23 2007 Posts: 1591

Shardea wrote:

SSL isn't running, but it will be soon. Est. downtime for adding it: ~20 seconds.

I'd like to point out that this kind of thing is one of the biggest advantages I see in using frogbox. Any problems with being on a tiny server are in my mind more than compensated for by this. One of the server admins proper there even told us that if we have a problem with the server, we can ask them about it. On a server of any size, if it lacked SSL, or whatever feature we decided was essential, and we asked an oper to put it in, I'm pretty sure they'd just ask who we were and tell us to fuck off.

Maybe frogbox won't work out, but it's been flawless thus far, and we're still testing it. The server move, if and when it happens, would be somewhat slow (I'd imagine at least a month) even if for no other reason than we have no way to just immediately notify everyone that we're moving. We'll have plenty of time to run into any problems before we get to the point where it would be a real pain to backtrack, but so far we haven't seen any sign of any serious problems, and we can see that there's a great advantage to using frogbox that we won't find on Mibbit the Network or Freenode or wherever.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Apr 25 2012 10:15 pm

Captain_Pollution wrote:

Shardea wrote:

SSL isn't running, but it will be soon. Est. downtime for adding it: ~20 seconds.

I'd like to point out that this kind of thing is one of the biggest advantages I see in using frogbox. Any problems with being on a tiny server are in my mind more than compensated for by this. One of the server admins proper there even told us that if we have a problem with the server, we can ask them about it. On a server of any size, if it lacked SSL, or whatever feature we decided was essential, and we asked an oper to put it in, I'm pretty sure they'd just ask who we were and tell us to fuck off.

The flipside of that, though, is that if this person decides to just up and say screw it, or doesn't pay their power bill, or gets kidnapped by the mob, it's history. There's nobody to go to. "Awwww, but that won't happen...", you may think, but remember everyone gets tired of everything eventually. There's no worry that DalNet won't be around tomorrow.

Title: Hugh Joined: Sep 23 2007 Posts: 1591

UsaSatsui wrote:

The flipside of that, though, is that if this person decides to just up and say screw it, or doesn't pay their power bill, or gets kidnapped by the mob, it's history. There's nobody to go to. "Awwww, but that won't happen...", you may think, but remember everyone gets tired of everything eventually. There's no worry that DalNet won't be around tomorrow.

That could happen, sure, but I think it's a small enough chance that we're okay taking it. It's four people running it jointly, too, so I think the idea of someone just getting bored with it and leaving isn't as dangerous as you make it sound. I'm pretty confident that if Shardea's brother and all his friends who are running the server decided to close it down, we'd at the very least get some advance warning from Shardea (who's been a good, reliable member here for a while), giving us time to pack up.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

I think the one constant here is that Syd doesn't want the channel on a small server. That's just how it's gotta be. Moving to a more reliable bigger server is the next logical step, so let's just discuss how that could happen, or if it could at all.

Posted: Apr 26 2012 05:16 am

I imagine part of the reason Syd wants to stay on DALNet is the hundreds of hours we each spent there as kids. It's a nostalgia website, it's not about convenience. Unless you think that Syd reviewed 25 year old cereal boxes out of convenience cause he had them lying around already.

Posted: Apr 26 2012 08:27 am

I personnally want a server move for various reasons, some which I have told on IRC, and I won't be bothered elaborating on here. However, I want it to a major server. Because small or independently run servers always tend to be crappy, especially home hosted ones (Shardea, I am assuming this is the case for that server you are talking about, correct me if wrong). Also, if we did use a server like that, we might as well get Syd to add a IRCd to his web server (providing he has SSH access to it).

I would also ask that if a server has nick registration, that it allows me to use "/MSG NickServ identify xyz" to identify, rather than "/MSG NickServ@services.blah.com identify xyz" and doesn't do the sixty second thing, and rather just prevents you from joining channels with a registered nick until you identify with one.

Title: The Self-Titler Joined: Aug 14 2010 Posts: 598

tsk tsk... its all about /identify *password*

Lot of people out there looking at options right now. I have faith that we can find something that everyone can agree on.

Posted: Apr 26 2012 09:44 am

Sarge wrote:

tsk tsk... its all about /identify *password*

That command isn't a IRC standard command, therefor, some clients don't use it, my iPhone's IRC client is one of them (and typing the long command on iOS and android devices is torture)

Also, I just checked, and we also need to worry about server bot policies, since we have Lexiabot9000.

Another reason for not using that small server: the big server networks usually have multiple servers around the world, which helps prevent overloading, and prevent lag. Small servers typically are just one server, which may work fine for people in the country it is hosted, but for people in faraway countries (ME!), there will be lag (unless the user uses a client like mibbit or usealice), especially if the server is home hosted, since home Internet connections tend to be less stable (see UsaSatsui's argument), and also usually have a lackluster upload speed, which is bad for all kinds of servers, IRC servers inclusive.

Posted: Apr 26 2012 01:41 pm

Mr. Satire wrote:

Sarge wrote:

tsk tsk... its all about /identify *password*

That command isn't a IRC standard command, therefor, some clients don't use it, my iPhone's IRC client is one of them (and typing the long command on iOS and android devices is torture)

Also, I just checked, and we also need to worry about server bot policies, since we have Lexiabot9000.

Another reason for not using that small server: the big server networks usually have multiple servers around the world, which helps prevent overloading, and prevent lag. Small servers typically are just one server, which may work fine for people in the country it is hosted, but for people in faraway countries (ME!), there will be lag (unless the user uses a client like mibbit or usealice), especially if the server is home hosted, since home Internet connections tend to be less stable (see UsaSatsui's argument), and also usually have a lackluster upload speed, which is bad for all kinds of servers, IRC servers inclusive.

/ns identify <password> works. Your argument is invalid.

Title: Hugh Joined: Sep 23 2007 Posts: 1591

/ns isn't standard either. It's just a shorthand that nine out of ten clients support. If you're like MrSatire and you apparently seek out that one out of ten that doesn't, and also is incapable of having aliases defined, then you have to type out the long form (on DALnet it's /msg nickserv@services.dal.net, most places accept just /msg nickserv).

Posted: Apr 26 2012 04:07 pm

I stand corrected. I have not looked for the one that doesn't work so I can whine about it, my apologies.

Posted: Apr 26 2012 11:05 pm

There are way less than nine out of ten that support it. Every iPhone client I have used doesn't have it (LimeChat, Colloquy), and irrsi doesn't have it (due to the fact it was designed to conform with IRC standards and nothing extra). On the terminal client side, irrsi is the only good client I have heard of. There is BitchX, but that is apparently less secure (source: it's Wikipedia article) and uses godawful jokes as quit and away messages and doesn't have plugin support. And I doubt it would have support for the /ns, /nickserv or /identify command.

Posted: Apr 26 2012 11:44 pm

Mr. Satire wrote:

I personnally want a server move for various reasons, some which I have told on IRC, and I won't be bothered elaborating on here. However, I want it to a major server. Because small or independently run servers always tend to be crappy, especially home hosted ones (Shardea, I am assuming this is the case for that server you are talking about, correct me if wrong). Also, if we did use a server like that, we might as well get Syd to add a IRCd to his web server (providing he has SSH access to it).

I would also ask that if a server has nick registration, that it allows me to use "/MSG NickServ identify xyz" to identify, rather than "/MSG NickServ@services.blah.com identify xyz" and doesn't do the sixty second thing, and rather just prevents you from joining channels with a registered nick until you identify with one.

It's not a home-hosted server, it's a properly rented and run commercial server.

Nickserv is going to work the way Nickserv works, and imposing a specific way of working is kinda a silly requirement to have. And besides, '/msg nickserv' is supported here, as is fairly standard.

Does DALnet even have any servers close enough to you to minimize lag? Considering the quality of the service they offer, I can't see how a server move would be anything but an upgrade for you...

Posted: Apr 26 2012 11:48 pm

Shardea wrote:

Mr. Satire wrote:

I personnally want a server move for various reasons, some which I have told on IRC, and I won't be bothered elaborating on here. However, I want it to a major server. Because small or independently run servers always tend to be crappy, especially home hosted ones (Shardea, I am assuming this is the case for that server you are talking about, correct me if wrong). Also, if we did use a server like that, we might as well get Syd to add a IRCd to his web server (providing he has SSH access to it).

I would also ask that if a server has nick registration, that it allows me to use "/MSG NickServ identify xyz" to identify, rather than "/MSG NickServ@services.blah.com identify xyz" and doesn't do the sixty second thing, and rather just prevents you from joining channels with a registered nick until you identify with one.

It's not a home-hosted server, it's a properly rented and run commercial server.

Nickserv is going to work the way Nickserv works, and imposing a specific way of working is kinda a silly requirement to have. And besides, '/msg nickserv' is supported here, as is fairly standard.

Does DALnet even have any servers close enough to you to minimize lag? Considering the quality of the service they offer, I can't see how a server move would be anything but an upgrade for you...

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Can you tell more about the server though (type, OS, etc.)?

Okay, good.

To be honest, not really.

Title: Comic Author Joined: Dec 12 2008 Posts: 1179

I hopped into SynIRC today and chatted with the folks in their #help channel for a while, and on initial glance, it sounds ideal. They have both NickServ and ChanServ, along with SSL access on all of their servers. They're fine with webclient access, including Mibbit, and they also allow bots, so we won't be leaving Lexy behind. Some of us will be hanging around in the chat for a while to see how stable it is, though I have a strong feeling it'll be more stable than DALnet.

Posted: Apr 27 2012 08:54 pm

I never realized that I knew so little about IRC until after reading this entire thread.

Posted: Apr 27 2012 09:33 pm

Atma wrote:

I never realized that I knew so little about IRC after reading this entire thread.

That is what I was thinking as well... even though I have been chatting on IRC for a long time.

Title: Comic Author Joined: Dec 12 2008 Posts: 1179

So, slightly over three days of testing SynIRC out for stability, everything seems perfectly fine. Not one of us who's been testing it has disconnected even once from it, and we have Vald in there testing it now, who has been something of a disconnect machine over the past couple days. His client adds an underscore to his name each time he disconnects and reconnects, and lately, he's typically been sitting at about 5 or 6 underscores, with a current record of 8. Since hopping into SynIRC... he's had 0 underscores.

I understand that this is a nostalgia website and that DALnet is nostalgic and important to one person, but I really think in this case, your community should come before nostalgia. The people using the chatroom weren't aware of the hundreds of hours Syd spent on DALnet as a kid before this thread, and the new people coming in won't be aware of it, either, it doesn't matter at all to them. All they see is DALnet being shitty in the present day. A number of folks have talked about the chat being representative of the site, and if that's the image you want to put across, we'll stick around on DALnet and let that be the image representing the site. If you'd rather make the community happy, please put your seal of approval on this move and let us get started, Syd.

Posted: Apr 30 2012 10:37 pm

Actually, I was up to nine underscores before I connected to SynIRC.