To like the new Star Trek movie and hate Nemesis really blows my mind.
Then consider your mind blown, because I am that guy.
I love TNG. I remember watching every episode when they first aired. I enjoyed Generations, loved First Contact, feel meh about Insurrection, and really disliked Nemesis.
Why do I feel this way?
Because all four of those movies have the same god damn story. First Contact just did it best. In fact, the new movie has the same fucking plot also, but they changed it up enough to seem fresh.
Paramount's How To Make A Star Trek Movie Guide:
1. A villain threatens the federation/a solar system/the universe/the timeline
2. The Enterprise arrives.
3. Epic ship battle! Enterprise get seriously fucked up, but wins!
4. Picard personally confronts villain in a round of fisty-cuffs to save the day!
Genrations:
1 = Soren threatens a solar system for his own desire to enter the Nexus.
2 = Eneterprise arrives to distress signal to save Soren from Romulans.
3 = Enterprise has showdown with the Duras Sisters, They win, enterprise gets destroyed.
4 = Picard (& Kirk) faces soren in one on one combat. Picard wins!
First Contact:
1 = The Borg queen threatens the timeline and the federation!
2 = Enterprise arrives at sector 001 to stop the Cube.
3 = Enterprise owns the cube and chases the Sphere. Enterprise gets partially assimilated.
4 = Picard has one on one confrontation with queen. He never hits her. (Picard is too manly to hit a lady.) But, does melt her flesh off. Picard wins!
Insurrection:
1 = The Son'a led by Ru'afo, want to harvest the metaphasic particles and kill the native Ba'ku.
2 = Enterprise arrives to recover Data, who seems to have gone crazy.
3 = Enterprise has epic battle with Son'a ship. Enterprise has to eject it's warp core to stop them.
4 = Picard faces Ru'afo mano a mano, and kicks his ass. Picard wins!
Nemesis (or Sis-e men [Sissy Men] backwards!):
1 = Shinzon (Picards secret clone!) wants to destroy Earth!!! OMFG!!!!
2 = Enterprise arrives, as they were lured by another Data clone. (Which strangely Dr.Soogn never mentioned to Data or Lore, and apparently kept no records on, since after the Doctor's passing, Data receives all his work and research.)
3 = Enterprise has epic battle with the Scimitar. The ships butt heads.
4 = Picard fucking impales Shinzon. Picard wins! (Though, what would Freud say about impaling oneself?)
All the movies only have one plot, for Christ's sake! Generations? Insurrection? Nemesis? They're the same movie! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
Posted:
Jan 07 2011 03:13 pm
Well put, Knyte. Not only does First Contact do that one story best, but it also has the best B storyline, in them having to ensure that the guy doesn't revert to being a drunken loser and successfully has the first warp drive test from Earth. Also, Steppenwolf.
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus
SNESGuy
Title: El Duderino
Joined: Jul 31 2010
Location: Da D.C
Posts: 1831
Posted:
Jan 07 2011 04:50 pm
Quote:
All the movies only have one plot, for Christ's sake! Generations? Insurrection? Nemesis? They're the same movie! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
Crazy pills you say?
slapolakinkaido
Title: Illegitimate Son of God
Joined: Jul 14 2009
Posts: 1565
Posted:
Jan 08 2011 04:40 am
Wow, it's real easy to start an argument. Next up..Terminator vs Alien, then South Park vs Family Guy.
Sure, there are some bad Star Treks, but even the bad ones can have some silly, marginally entertaining moments. The bad Star Wars movies on the other hand make anyone over 12 want to stab themselves in the head.
Pandajuice wrote:
And Snesguy, while I appreciate the effort to better yourself, watching only 10 minutes of a movie still isn't enough to formulate an informed or an even remotely respectable opinion.
I watched less than 10 minutes of High School Musical, less than 10 seconds even, and I found it to be plenty of time to form a well documented and formulated opinion that the movie sucks monkey balls.
Dr. Strangelove wrote:
Out of curiosity, what makes Star trek V so bad? I have never seen it, nor heard anything about it other than it sucks.
Star Trek V just had a really lame plot, simply put. It was a huge letdown from the previous 3 Star Trek movies which were IMO the best Star Trek movies ever made.
Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
Posted:
Jan 08 2011 05:56 am
To answer Dr. Strangelove, the let Shatner write Star Trek V.That's what makes it so bad.
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus
Shut up, Dorn
Title: White Chocolate
Joined: Jan 04 2008
Location: Grate Whyte Norf
Posts: 1179
Posted:
Jan 10 2011 02:28 am
As probably the only member of the Syd Lexia Forums with a Star Trek collection totalling over $2,000, I think I should chime in on this.
As of the social "stigma" of HAVING to like one or the other, I think that's a crock of shit. There's no reason you can't absolutely love both Trek and Wars. I do. I'm a "Peaceful Coexistence" guy.
Ranking the Movies (Best to Worst - in terms of enjoyability in my book), I'll keep it short.
Star Wars:
1) Return of the Jedi - I know it's not the best made star wars movie, but the final chapter where the good guys win is my favorite. I especially think the special effects are the best of the original set.
2) Empire Strikes Back - Great movie, best movie made of the series.
3) Star Wars - The movie that started it all.
4) Revenge of the Sith - I think this movie is a lot better than the fanboys made it, the SW franchise is impossible to please anyone of the SW faith.
5) The Phantom Menace - So much of this movie is bad, there's a few redeeming parts though, and everyone remembers where they were when they first saw it.
6) Attack of the Clones - Has a movie ever been more of a "We don't have any central plot line, come back next time"? I never felt that this movie had anything independent to say, like the rest of them did.
Star Trek:
1) ST II: The Wrath of Khan - This movie is epic. Only movie that I know of that I can clearly recite every line along with the movie. I don't know if I should be proud of that or not.
2) First Contact - Best TNG movie by 10 lengths, this is the most flashy and well acted Trek film.
3) ST VI: The Undiscovered Country - This movie is chuck full of classic bits, quotes and scenes.
4) ST IV: The Voyage Home - The only "fun" trek film, this movie was a success on every front.
5) ST III: The Search for Spock - Heavy on the action, this movie is BIG in the trek world.
6) Generations - this movie was a bit of a let down, but there is enough good in it to redeem it as a worthy entry.
7) Insurrection - another movie that I think isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is, but the plot in itself is a little too weak to be a film on its own.
The Motion Picture - this movie is slow as hell, but its self-seriousness, it's "return to glory", it's production story make it my #8 choice (also the only movie I've seen where the production of the film is WAY more entertaining than the film itself - get the special edition DVD, you won't be disappointed.)
9) Nemesis - A star trek movie without a decent plot tries very hard to not fall all over itself but fails miserably. A shame too, but there are memorable parts in it.
10) ST V: The Final Frontier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U43Ate3Itjs&feature=related
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus
Shut up, Dorn
Title: White Chocolate
Joined: Jan 04 2008
Location: Grate Whyte Norf
Posts: 1179
Posted:
Jan 10 2011 03:06 am
I've heard some people.
slapolakinkaido
Title: Illegitimate Son of God
Joined: Jul 14 2009
Posts: 1565
Posted:
Jan 12 2011 06:39 pm
I like both, but in different ways. If I want to be intellectually stimulated however I'd have to go with Star Trek. If I want to just watch something where I don't have to think too much (cause I'm high or something), I'll go with Phantom Menace or something.
Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
Posted:
Jan 13 2011 04:02 pm
I think the big thing people don't realize is that these are totally different genres. Star Trek is hardcore science fiction. Star Wars is fantasy that happens to take place in space.
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus
JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
Posted:
Jan 13 2011 04:46 pm
Dr. Jeebus wrote:
I think the big thing people don't realize is that these are totally different genres. Star Trek is hardcore science fiction. Star Wars is fantasy that happens to take place in space.
QFT.
Drew Linky
Wizard
Joined: Jun 12 2009
Posts: 4209
Posted:
Jan 15 2011 12:58 am
I can't say it enough with you people, can I? This is subjective. You may say the prequels in Star Wars suck, I say I loved them. Which in all fairness, I did. Feel free to stone me. I don't like most Star Trek stuff (with the exception of the 2009 J. J. Abrams installment). Some of you might not. That's fine. But I hate it when people claim a definite superiority over another simply because you liked it more. That's utter bull shit and it needs to fucking stop.
https://discord.gg/homestuck is where you can find me literally 99% of the time. Stop on by if you feel like it, we're a nice crowd.
Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
Posted:
Jan 15 2011 06:35 am
Well there are certain things that are definites; for example, the Star Wars prequels are legitimately bad movies, especially Phantom Menace. Bad acting, a convoluted plot and it features one of the worst characters ever conceived of for a film ever.
JoshWoodzy
Joined: May 22 2008
Location: Goshen, VA
Posts: 6544
Posted:
Jan 15 2011 07:38 am
We get it man, you don't like them. I didn't LOVE them and have no desire to own or watch them again, but I understand that I'm not the target audience. Likewise, I would make an ass out of myself if I sat here and critiqued episodes of Lamb Chops Sing Along because it didn't age well or had goofy characters and was clearly for children.
Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
Posted:
Jan 15 2011 05:15 pm
In all fairness, it does reach a point where it stops being subjective. You can legitimately say you liked Star Trek V or Phantom Menace, but that just means you like bad movies. I understand personal taste and all, but there are some movies that are just exercises in bad film making.
For example, I had a great time when I saw the movie Pathology. It is indisputably a bad movie, but it was a lot of fun to watch and make fun of in the theater since there was no one else there. I would absolutely recommend watching it if you and your friends have an MST3K style movie night, but despite all the enjoyment the experience brought me, it is still a terrible, terrible movie.
I thought Star Trek V was a little worse than Insurrection, (just a little). And that's coming from someone who preferred the old Star Trek movies to the next generation.
Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
Posted:
Jan 16 2011 07:20 am
joshwoodzy wrote:
Likewise, I would make an ass out of myself if I sat here and critiqued episodes of Lamb Chops Sing Along because it didn't age well or had goofy characters and was clearly for children.
Not necessarily. You're fully able to critique something as being badly made vs something that is well made without liking the show or being the target audience. Dora the Explorer is a piece of crap that has bad animation, reused sequences, and writing that's juvenile even to my 4 year old. On the other hand, Backyardigans is a well made and slick show that clearly takes a lot of work to write and produce.
I don't like either of the shows because I'm not 4 years old, but I can clearly see which one is bad and which one is good.
RE: Insurrection, yes, it might be the worst Trek movie but I still think it's a decent film when seen in a vacuum. By that I mean when not compared to the other Trek movies. I like it anyway depite it being the weakest entry of the TNG films.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24869
Posted:
Jan 16 2011 08:19 am
slapolakinkaido wrote:
I thought Star Trek V was a little worse than Insurrection, (just a little). And that's coming from someone who preferred the old Star Trek movies to the next generation.
Star Trek V, at the very least, was ambitious. It never fulfilled its ambitions, but at least it had them. Insurrection lacked ambition. It felt like an overly long episode of the television show, and that's not a good thing. If you're going to take a television show to the big screen, you have to tell an epic story. Insurrection didn't. It told a very simple story.
6) Generations - this movie was a bit of a let down, but there is enough good in it to redeem it as a worthy entry.
7) Insurrection - another movie that I think isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is, but the plot in itself is a little too weak to be a film on its own.
The Motion Picture - this movie is slow as hell, but its self-seriousness, it's "return to glory", it's production story make it my #8 choice (also the only movie I've seen where the production of the film is WAY more entertaining than the film itself - get the special edition DVD, you won't be disappointed.)
9) Nemesis - A star trek movie without a decent plot tries very hard to not fall all over itself but fails miserably. A shame too, but there are memorable parts in it.
10) ST V: The Final Frontier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U43Ate3Itjs&feature=related
I think TMP is alot better than you give credit for... I agree with your last 2 choices however. Final Frontier and Nemesis are clearly the worst.
I totally disagree with you putting Generations over TMP. It has a horrible script yet people somehow give it heavy unwarranted praise nostalgia wise because Picard and Kirk are in it together. I genuinely started to hate Malcolm McDowell as an actor after this movie.
Also I think most fans feel this movie could have been alot better story wise and I firmly believe it is alot worse than the Motion Picture in every possible way. Its sort of an insult to some fans.
Insurrection was ok in the theaters if u liked the pace the TV series had, but i can't watch it at home as the plot holes become glaringly obvious to me. I will say that is probably is more enjoyable to some over TMP because it isn't super slow and appeals to a wider audience.
Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
Posts: 2649
Posted:
Jan 17 2011 07:18 am
Wow, I must live in reverso world or something because I thought Nemesis was pretty good and I like Generations as much as First Contact, if not moreso. I loved Malcolm McDowell in Generations and genuinely love that movie without having any nostalgia for Kirk or whatever (I dislike the Original Series in general). To call it an insult to fans is bizarre to me because I am a TNG fan.
Of the Next Gen films Insurrection is obviously the weakest but like I said before, I was (and am) entertained by all of them.
Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24869
Posted:
Jan 17 2011 08:22 am
Generations isn't as good as First Contact, but it is fantastic. I remember being super pumped to see Generations because it was the first TNG movie and it had Kirk AND Picard. And I was not disappointed.
I enjoy Nemesis a lot. Many people hate it though. It's been called Wrath of Khan Lite and a lot of other mean things. But it was dark and it was action-oriented, and I enjoyed both those things about it.
The Motion Picture - this movie is slow as hell, but its self-seriousness, it's "return to glory", it's production story make it my #8 choice (also the only movie I've seen where the production of the film is WAY more entertaining than the film itself - get the special edition DVD, you won't be disappointed.)
