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Please to help with MTG?


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KyriosExousia
Title: Jack of all Trades
Joined: Jul 17 2010
Location: A realm of Nihilism
PostPosted: Jul 20 2010 09:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

hello peoples from across the interwebs, i has a minor question that requires some assistance.
Currently i am building a casual play knight deck using the colors black and white, in my group (which includes TARDISman), the "best" deck is a standard Jund deck, and a standard aura based g/w deck. then there's just a mix of a whole ton of other stuff.

here is the current decklist i want to have, any criticisms and suggestions would be nice, however, needless arrogance and uppity attitudes i do not approve of, so none of that crap.

decklist:
lands:
4x Orzhov Basillica
8x Plains
8x Swamps

Creatures:
4x White Knight
4x Black Knight
2x Knight Exemplar
2x Knight of White Orchid
2x Student of Warfare
4x Knight of Dusk
2x Haakon, Stormgald Scourge

Other Spells:
4x Path to Exile
2x Damnation
2x Day of Judgement
2x Doomblade
4x Deathrender
2x Konda's Banner
2x Coat of Arms
2x Door of Destinies
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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Jul 20 2010 10:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I can look at it more later, but Nameless Inversion is disgusting with Haakon, that's the one that jumps to mind.

A way to get Haakon into the graveyard quicker would also be a good thing.
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 20 2010 11:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Here's what i think you need to do:
1.) add at least 3 lands (your deck doesn't need much to get going, most cards are cheap just need to make sure you draw them, especially early on)
2.) get 2-3 high costing sweet knights (you can get them out 3 ways discarding them to gy, by whatever means you discard haakon, using render blades on them, or hard casting.. they'd also be a good card to have to discard if you don't have a haakon in your hand to discard at the time)
3.) drop some of the following render blades, Door of destinies, or kanada's
4.) Side board the Doomblades put in cards to accelerate your set up
5.) Get some cards that let you draw cards from black to speed up your combo... especially find a way to discard Haakon, i currently don't see one.. (you may have some black cards that'll let you draw then discard a card or something) need to find something like that. and also add at least 1 haakon.


You need a way to get your knights powerful faster, and get your guy out that makes you knights indestructible, right now they're not buffed up to anything significant until turn 5 really until you can get a card like coat of arms...

Those are my biggest tips. And then Sideboard against combos, which you'll be weakest against. use demystifies, thoughtsieze etc...

Good concept though has potential.


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Blackout
Title: Captain Oblivious
Joined: Sep 01 2007
Location: That Rainy State
PostPosted: Jul 20 2010 11:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

God magic sure is popular around here!



 
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KyriosExousia
Title: Jack of all Trades
Joined: Jul 17 2010
Location: A realm of Nihilism
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 01:52 am Reply with quote Back to top

other cards i've considered:

Creatures:
Kinsbaile Cavalier
Tivadar of Thorn
Sigiled Paladin
Riftmarked Knight
Palading en-Vec
Kabira Vindicator
White Shield Crusader
Stormgald Crusader
Stillmoon Cavalier

Lands:
Tainted Field
Flagstones of Trokair
Vivid Marsh
Vesuva

Sorcery:
Austere Command
Akroma's Vengeance
Sunscour
Choice of Damnations
Curse of the Cabal
Hex
Living End
Temporal Extraction

Instants:
Darkness
Etheral Haze

that's the best i can think of on short notice
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 02:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

Here's more along the lines i'm thinking of. Some Dark Confidents, the pay 2 life and draw 2 cards black card... maybe a card like small pox, so you can discard, and you operate off low mana base anyway so probably hurt opponent more. You need to find a card that has a cost you that let's you discard a card. i'm sure there are some good black ones.

Haakon seems best off in some sort of Dredge deck.. but i think you can make use of him... AS fo right now though if you have no good way to discard him yuou'll have to sub him out. If i get a chacne i'll look at the other card options you posted.


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Dr. Jeebus
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Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 04:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

It's 4 am, so I only skimmed. Some advice:
Either put in a discard outlet for Haakon, or drop him from the deck. Peace of Mind is a great outlet since you can also discard every spell you want to play for 3 life. Usa is right and Nameless Inversion is sick in this deck.
Drop Damnation. It goes completely against what you're trying to do.
If Konda's Banner does what I think it does, it doesn't work well in a dual color deck (And you have nothing to equip it to except Haakon...again, if it does what I think it does. I can check later.)
Up the Exemplars to 4. They make the deck broken.
Put the Kinsbaile Cavaliers in. The also make the deck broken.
Put in the Stillmoon Cavaliers. They dodge all non-red removal and have evasion. They could replace Knight fo Dusk as that's your weakest night, most likely.
Don't bother with Deathrender. As far as I can tell, that's your means for getting Haakon into play and eventually the graveyard, but it's very roundabout and the equipment itself serves little purpose.


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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 06:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

Blackout wrote:
God magic sure is popular around here!


Yeah, it's getting pretty obnoxious that the Toys forum is completely filled up with Magic threads. Can't you guys make a Magic subforum or something and seperate the wheat from the chaff as it were?
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 11:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

As Jeebus said, cut Konda's Banner. You need both it and Haakon out for it to be useful, and you have no deck-fixing to ensure you get one if you have the other.

Cut Door of Destinies. It's too slow. Maybe run 4 Coats instead. Coat of Arms is a win condition. By the time you drop it, it should pretty much be winning you the game.

Maybe run a pair of Akroma's Blessings.

Cut 2 swamps and 2 plains for 4 Marsh Flats.
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sidewaydriver
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Title: ( ͡� &#8
Joined: May 11 2008
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 11:14 am Reply with quote Back to top

Here's my advice. When the other guy isn't looking, punch him in the head and run off with his cards.


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Lady_Satine
Title: Head of Lexian R&D
Joined: Oct 15 2005
Location: Metro area, Georgia
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 11:54 am Reply with quote Back to top

sidewaydriver wrote:
Here's my advice. When the other guy isn't looking, punch him in the head and run off with his cards.

That reminds me when I was playing before 1st period back in High School. This was in the cafeteria and right after I played a Demonic Tutor, some punk ran by the table, snatched it up and threatened to throw it into the trash can. When he saw how pissed I was, he apologized with a "Just kiddin man!" and threw it at my feet.


"Life is a waste of time. Time is a waste of life. Get wasted all the time, and you'll have the time of your life!"
 
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 21 2010 11:23 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Even if you get rid of Haakon all together... you still need a way to draw faster, to get to your +1/+1 indestructible. You need to put some drawing cards in there.. or way to get that sweet knight guy out. Syd's idea for the marsh flats is perfect for your deck.. you don't care about drawing lands later in the game, just make sure you have them early, and that's what marsh flats grants you. That in addition to giving you the option of choosing what type of land you need at the time.

My guess is though if you had that card, it'd already be in your deck. But it is worth getting, woudl help your deck a lot.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Jul 22 2010 09:32 am Reply with quote Back to top

JonSnow wrote:
Even if you get rid of Haakon all together.

...why would he want to get rid of the Haakon, when it's clearly a Haakon deck?
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jul 22 2010 11:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

Not every deck needs excel. This is a weenie deck, after all. And he's running Knight of the White Orchid.

I might run Buried Alive. It's deck thinning and it works with Haakon.
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 22 2010 05:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ya that'll help with land... But without that indestructible guy.. just a few hard casted 2/2 knights aren't that special and might not stick around on the field for very long. That's why i'd recommend some drawing power to get haakon and that guy... if you have key cards you need, then you want to be able to have a decent chance of drawing them. It's alright as is, but i think it'll be too slow, maybe work out in multiplayer. Actually i just looked at what Syd recommend and he answers your problems beautifully.. that card is perfect for your deck. (I explain why below), but it does still leave one hole.

Quote:
...why would he want to get rid of the Haakon, when it's clearly a Haakon deck?


Jeebus made a simiilar suggestion, after i made it of course.... the reason being if he has no good outs for discards then haakon becomes a dead draw. He needs to have a way to discard him.. and if he does that I'd also recommend putting in 2-3 high costing knights because that'll give you more discard options, if you need them. Or you can hard cast. Jeebus' knight that grants other knights double strike is amazing for this deck.

Lastly haakon is not the only thing this deck has going for it, but haakon is very useful for this deck.


---

Also Syd the card you recommended is awesome for this deck, that let's him put knights he wants to get out qujicly into the gy, and it lets him get haakon to the gy.. so now he basically has more copies of both haakon and the +1/+1 indestructible buy. and Jeebu's knight card if he wants them... i'd put in 4 of Syd's card. And if you do that you can keep haakon at 2.

The only concern now is that if you draw haakon he's basically a dead draw..s o puting in at least eaqual to the number of haakon you have.. number of discard cards that lets you discard a card from your hand i'd recommend.

My other concern is that SYd's card is AMAZING for your deck.. but it also puts it in vintage legal set, which your deck probably doesnt' want to tango with decks that are vintage legal So if you go to a tournament and are like i have a vintage deck... there'd be no point o play since so many ridiculous acards are legal in that format. The card is very good for ya though.


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nihilisticglee
Joined: Oct 12 2007
PostPosted: Jul 22 2010 07:09 pm Reply with quote Back to top

JonSnow wrote:
My other concern is that SYd's card is AMAZING for your deck.. but it also puts it in vintage legal set, which your deck probably doesnt' want to tango with decks that are vintage legal So if you go to a tournament and are like i have a vintage deck... there'd be no point o play since so many ridiculous acards are legal in that format. The card is very good for ya though.


It is a casual deck, so format legality doesn't matter all that much. Cost may however, don't know how much Buried Alive goes for.

I kind of like Strongarm Tagics for this deck, as it puts Haakan in the graveyard if it is in your hand, and possibly hits your opponent for 4. Nameless Inversion is a must with Haakan. I like Smallpox, but if you include it you will need 24 lands then. The flying white Changeling could do some good by still getting the boosts your knights get while poking your opponent.
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 12:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

This is assuming you can get Syd's card.. his card makes your deck orgasmic, he accelerates your deck to no other. By turn 3 ... you can now get haakon and 2 knights of your choice to the field incredibly quickly... you also thin out your deck so you can run less lands, (since your probabiltiy of drawing lands will increase due to the deck thinner).. and you can run less creatures since drawing one of Syd's awesome cards is like drawing 3 creatures.. Syd is a god damn genius. That card is just amazing.. i'm sitting here in awe in how awesome that card is for your deck. Wow... blows my mind, it's the best card in that deck, the best innovation to that deck... you will dominate any similar deck that does run that card.

Jeebus has pointed out that i have misread Haakon:
I misread Haakon to say play like once a turn a knight from the gy. But what i neglected is you still have pay it's mana cost. And you can keep diong it as long as you have mana. So those high guys aren't what we need to be having. We can have them but need rendering or a hard cast.. even from gy it's a hard cast.

We can have have some but not what i wanted to do.
NEED to take out 1 card...
4x Orzhov Basillica (21)
6x Plains
7x Swamps
4x Marsh Flats

Creatures: 20
3x Dark Confidant
3x White Knight
3x Black Knight
1x Knight of White Orchid
4x Knight Exemplar
2x Haakon, Stormgald Scourge
2x Kinsbaile Cavaliers
2x Pentarch Paladin

Other Spells: 19
3x Path to Exile
2x Day of Judgement
3x Deathrender
3x Coat of Arms
2x Strongarm Tagics
4x Buried Alive
3x Nameless Inversion


Side Board:


Demistify
emerge unscathed
thought sieze
duress
doomblade
damnation
lightwielder paladin

for 1x Pentarch Paladin
1x Knight-Captain of Eos (keep destroying him and generate a ton of tokesn with haakon, or destroy pent so you can change the color you declared, or orchid to spam lands to you)

side board conisder the decks that will be annoying for you. cards that get rid of your haakon, or key creatures... so emerge unscathed may be worth ethe SB... quick combo decks are going to hurt you badly.. so the duress and theoughtsieze to break them up.


I woudln't follow that exaclty.. that was more of quicky gist of the cards i find vaulabe in the deck... really you need to browse for the most badass knights you can find... you can get them out for free with either strongarm or buried alive... they will be 100% free. So i'd get 2-3 aweseome 5mana knight cards with cool effects.

In theory by turn 3 if you have buried alive, you can grab hakon and some badass knight for your opponent to deal with (lieke the +/1+1 indestrcuctible guy).

P.S i love damnation in your deck...sbut you just have so much creature hate.. and just field control hate in your deck right now... it's too much they'd be dead draws. i'd sideboard them in case you need it, and you recover well after it's use, even if your guys die, as long as you have haakon.


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Dr. Jeebus
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Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 04:34 am Reply with quote Back to top

How exactly does Haakon let you play the Adjudicator without blue mana? Oh wait, it doesn't, because you're a fucking retard and have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, so Haakon is good for the deck if you have a way to discard it, but don't build the entire thing around him. If you do, you'll lose. It's that simple. Trust me, I have a lot of experience with the card, because I wanted to desperately to break it.


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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 05:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
How exactly does Haakon let you play the Adjudicator without blue mana? Oh wait, it doesn't, because you're a fucking retard and have no idea what you're talking about.


I thought it was saying play for FREE, once a turn a knight from the GY. But rather it is... play as many knights as you want from GY, but you must pay their mana cost. So haakon can't make you swarm the field with knighs asap but it can get key knights to the field from teh deck quickly

Which is something you needed. So this deck iwll be bit slower than i was originally thinking. But still if you get Syd's card it'll be much better as card will fall into place for you.


I need to tweak that deck more though now... i already made some quick tweaks to an already quickly put together deck example for you. To adjust for my now careful reading of haakon.


Edit: Gunna go to bed but here's the basic strategy as i see it... i fyou're getting close to 6 mana and you don't have render dump the big guys in the gy as well as some toher guys you watn o summon. So you dont' have to draw them. If you do have render then you want to draw the big guys dso dont' dump them.


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UsaSatsui
Title: The White Rabbit
Joined: May 25 2008
Location: Hiding
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 09:44 am Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Yeah, so Haakon is good for the deck if you have a way to discard it, but don't build the entire thing around him. If you do, you'll lose. It's that simple. Trust me, I have a lot of experience with the card, because I wanted to desperately to break it.

Someone around here had a really good (casual) Haakon deck, so it can be done, but aside from maybe Nameless Inversion (maybe), it really isn't breakable. Unless there's a good knight out there with a powerful sacrifice ability I'm missing.

If you are trying to build the deck around Haakon (our conversation in the chat gave me that impression), some Dredge stuff may help with filling the yard up with Knights to play.
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 02:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

New Draft recommendation: need to take out 1 card.

4x Orzhov Basillica (21)
6x Plains
7x Swamps
4x Marsh Flats

Creatures: 20
3x Dark Confidant
3x White Knight
3x Black Knight
1x Knight of White Orchid
4x Knight Exemplar
2x Haakon, Stormgald Scourge
2x Kinsbaile Cavaliers
2x Pentarch Paladin

Other Spells: 19
3x Path to Exile
2x Day of Judgement
3x Deathrender
3x Coat of Arms
2x Strongarm Tactics
4x Buried Alive
3x Nameless Inversion


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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 02:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Jon, stop posting in these threads. Your advice is useless and is about to result in threads getting locked. One of the key traits of a good deck builder is actually reading your cards. Your inability to properly understand Haakon, which is very straightforward and you had VERY wrong, shows that you cannot handle this. Your advice is not welcome here.


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UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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Pandajuice
Title: The Power of Grayskull
Joined: Oct 30 2008
Location: US and UK
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 03:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

He is free to post his opinions, no? You don't have to abuse him every time he posts Jeebus; just ignore him and hope the OP takes your suggestions over his. If they don't, who the fuck cares? It's just a stupid card game.

If you want to do some moderating, go ahead and merge all these superfluous Magic threads that are flooding the Toy forum, or move them into a Magic subforum where you guys can conduct your serious cardboard business and abuse Snow away from those of us who want to discuss other toys, games and hobbies. This whole Magic business is getting pretty silly.
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aeonic
Title: Sporadic Poster
Joined: Nov 19 2009
Location: Kissimmee, FL
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 03:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

honestly, I dont understand the attraction of haakon. he's decent, but a 3/3 drop that you HAVE to discard seems like a pain. unless youre going up against a mill/discard deck or making it a part of a bigger gy return deck, its not that appealing to be honest. one bojuka bog in casual play and that aspect of your deck is raped to shit.


Who likes role-playing games? Me. Way too goddamn much.
 
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Fernin
Title: Comic Author
Joined: Dec 12 2008
PostPosted: Jul 23 2010 03:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Given that there's 8 Magic threads that have been active in the past week, I can sort of see the whole "There's too much Magic talk going on here!" viewpoint... But really, it's not that much, and it's not like us talking about Magic prevents other folks from talking about whatever they want, too. A Magic subforum is entirely unnecessary, this forum barely sees activity as it is. We'll see a food forum long before we see a Magic forum.



 
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