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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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"He is a pissant in the history of wrestling. He has the nerve to compare himself to me. Let's get realistic. If you put Bret Hart in your left hand and me in your right hand, compare the career...who is he? I wrestled everybody in the business, for an hour each night. Harley Race, Dory Funk, Jack and Jerry Brisco, who is Bret Hart? He is a legend in his own mind. He lives in his own little world...he screws his own family around. Who is Bret Hart? In my world he is a nobody!"
The saga continues...
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24869
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Didn't Foley once call Flair "the worst booker ever"?
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6085
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In spite of my love of most things Canadian, I have to (mostly) agree with Flair. Well okay not really...but I adore Flair. And I hate Bret Hart. While Hart's wrestling career and ability are for the most part beyond reproach, he is and will always be a jerk.
Yes, I am aware that's a double standard because Flair (and my idol, HBK) were jerks on just about the same level back in the day. But you know what? I fucking like them, and I don't like Bret Hart.*
/rant
*Disclaimer: I have nothing against Bret Hart's fans. If you love him, I completely understand why. I just don't share that opinion.
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William Shakespeare wrote: |
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. |
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Chile Guy
Title: Token Latino Otaku
Joined: Apr 14 2008
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
Posts: 479
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I'm only waiting how Bret will answer that. Possibly like the crybaby he's been all these years.
I just don't know why did he said that, in first place.
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6085
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Chile Guy wrote: |
I'm only waiting how Bret will answer that. Possibly like the crybaby he's been all these years.
I just don't know why did he said that, in first place. |
From the quote, it sounds like Hart said something or other comparing himself to Flair. Apparently, Flair did not take kindly to it.
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William Shakespeare wrote: |
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. |
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Ba'al
Title: Zerg Zergling
Joined: Mar 02 2008
Location: Uranus
Posts: 2286
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Owen >>> Bret, always has been for me.
But yeah, HBK also stated once in his book that Bret's "very very good, but not great". Which I agree with.
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6085
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Ba'al wrote: |
Owen >>> Bret, always has been for me. |
+1. Poor Owen. </3
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William Shakespeare wrote: |
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. |
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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As I recall, Flair started it by saying some stuff in his book about Bret. Bret wrote a reply on his newspaper column, and they've traded shots since then. Much like everything in wrestling, I just assume that both sides exaggerate to illustrate their point better. I'll never really understand these guys having an axe to grind with each other for like 15+ years. How long has Iron Sheik been talking shit about Jim Brunzell now?
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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I believe it was HBK who also mentioned that Bret had to use the same routine of moves in the same order in all his matches, otherwise he would throw a fit to the road agent in charge of the match.
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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Not that HBK is known for telling the truth or anything.
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
Posts: 6749
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He was an Ass in his youth, but he is a far different person now, then he was back then.
Remember, it's HBK who has not only opened the doors for apologizing for the screwjob, and wanting to meet with Bret face to face, to talk, but he also said he wants Bret to induct him into the Hall Of Fame, as he knows Bret will be honest about Shawn's career and ability, and not just blow smoke up his ass.
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6085
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You know what else I have a lot of respect for with HBK (not to turn this thread into an HBK love-fest, but still), *every* single time the WWE comes to Montreal (and Canada in general, but especially Montreal), no matter what storyline he's currently in, he either a) comes out and plays the perfect jerk, so the audience can boo the shit out of him, or b) actually tries to apologize, so the audience and boo the shit out of him. I don't know a lot of guys playing faces who would open themselves up to that on actual TV.
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William Shakespeare wrote: |
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. |
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Ghandi
Title: Alexz Aficionado
Joined: May 21 2008
Posts: 2889
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Knyte wrote: |
I believe it was HBK who also mentioned that Bret had to use the same routine of moves in the same order in all his matches, otherwise he would throw a fit to the road agent in charge of the match. |
Ah yes! The infamous "5 Moves of Doom".
HHH caught that infection too.
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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Ghandi wrote: |
Knyte wrote: |
I believe it was HBK who also mentioned that Bret had to use the same routine of moves in the same order in all his matches, otherwise he would throw a fit to the road agent in charge of the match. |
Ah yes! The infamous "5 Moves of Doom".
HHH caught that infection too. |
Try every top face ever. HBK has had his since 1995...
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SoldierHawk
Moderator
Title: Warrior-Poet
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6085
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(In fairness to HBK, he does tend to mix his Moves of Doom up, especially in big matches and PPVs.)
regardless though, I think the emphasis isn't so much that Hart didn't have variety since even his harshest critic has to admit he was a damn good wrestler, AND since I'm sure most match finishes are controlled by bookers who want to give the crowd what they want--which is to see their favorite wrestler perform his signature moves. (I'm sure this was especially true back then, when the level of smarkness was considerably lower.) I think the issue here is more the fact that, if those reports are to be believed, he would throw one of his signature fits if anyone wanted him to do anything BUT that.
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William Shakespeare wrote: |
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. |
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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When you're the best there is/was/ever will be, you need to excellently execute your routine. Or something.
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Sephiroth
Title: . : Louder than God : .
Joined: May 20 2008
Location: Princeton, IN
Posts: 23
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Many druids died to bring us this information
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-| What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion |- |
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uncle joe
Joined: Jul 15 2008
Location: Spanish Harlem
Posts: 280
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Fuck Flair, that crybaby bastard. I thought Bret was a whiny homo, but stuff said by guys like X PAc and Scott Steiner are true from what I hear. Plus, he shit on Bruno Sammartino for no exact reason. I'm not Bret's biggest fan, but he should have made a crack about how deliciously ironic it was for Ric Flair to try and succeed in a business in handling money. Also, Flair's a bitch who needs to understand that much like in baseball, their are different eras, and he wrestled in a different era than Bret did.
Also, he didn't wrestle 20 goddamn years out of prime because he needed the money.
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Ermac
Title: Thread Killer
Joined: Aug 04 2008
Location: Outworld
Posts: 1512
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Problem with Hart is that his whole persona didn't fit the whole new "Attitude" Era and he got jealous when The Texas Rattlesnake and The Rock PWND him in popularity. Bret had problems carrying PPV's when he was the main event in the period that WCW started to become popular. He was always family oriented, but boring in a way to the older fans who were sick of the same old predictable shit.
He also couldnt accept the fact that his whole gimmick died out fast and there was no new way to reinvent his character simiiar to the way Sting did successfully with his.
Come to think of it, he should have just copied Sting's act and become his tag team partner or something. He could have said Owens death turned him to the darkside and gone around throwing pink paint on opponents to taunt them or something. He would have become interesting then.
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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Ermac wrote: |
Problem with Hart is that his whole persona didn't fit the whole new "Attitude" Era and he got jealous when The Texas Rattlesnake and The Rock PWND him in popularity. Bret had problems carrying PPV's when he was the main event in the period that WCW started to become popular. He was always family oriented, but boring in a way to the older fans who were sick of the same old predictable shit.
He also couldnt accept the fact that his whole gimmick died out fast and there was no new way to reinvent his character simiiar to the way Sting did successfully with his.
Come to think of it, he should have just copied Sting's act and become his tag team partner or something. He could have said Owens death turned him to the darkside and gone around throwing pink paint on opponents to taunt them or something. He would have become interesting then. |
Uh... Bret's issues stemmed from them hyping HBK in 1996, not Austin. He's got nothing but good things to say about Austin. And Austin got a lot of credibility because he was the anti-hero to Bret's newly turned heel persona in 1997. I won't say Bret was the best on the mic, but he was the main heel in the entire company until the screwjob. Rock didn't really take off until after this, so the comparison is kind of apples/oranges.
As far as carrying PPVs when WCW took off... they didn't truly take off until 1996 with the nWo's formation, during which time Bret was on a hiatus and not even actively competing. Your weak main events came in the form of Diesel v. whoever while he was champ (save Survivor Series 1995), and HBK as champ v. whoever. As I recall, they never had Bret drop the belt because he wasn't drawing, but they did for Nash and HBK.
His gimmick didn't "die out", either... the entire point of the Hitman was that he represented tradition and what was right in the wrestling business. He maybe takes it a little too serious as far as actually living that persona goes, but it's an extension of who he really is, which is what makes gimmicks click and work. Sting turning into the Crow and getting paid to hang out in the rafters and maybe DDT someone for 2 years and then magically turning into Red Crow and being all happy and shit... I dunno. Sting was better to me pre-Hogan WCW. :shrug
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 24869
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I always thought it was weird that Bret had a feud with Lawler. Lawler was old in the 90s, and it seemed weird that one of their top guys was feuding with a guy who in his glory days was only a regional draw. And that was a terrible feud. Fight my dentist! Fight my court jester! UGH.
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Ermac
Title: Thread Killer
Joined: Aug 04 2008
Location: Outworld
Posts: 1512
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Uh... Bret's issues stemmed from them hyping HBK in 1996, not Austin. He's got nothing but good things to say about Austin. And Austin got a lot of credibility because he was the anti-hero to Bret's newly turned heel persona in 1997. |
Bret didnt think that Shawns "Sexy Boy Playgirl" stage behavior was appropriate for a younger audience and he failed to realize that the brand of wrestling people wanted was now different. Shawn was backstage boning Sunny and doing alot of backstage politicking that constituted Hart thinking he was being put down by managment being the good employee, while Shawn was getting away with murder.
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I won't say Bret was the best on the mic, but he was the main heel in the entire company until the screwjob. Rock didn't really take off until after this, so the comparison is kind of apples/oranges. |
The Montreal Screwjob was done because McMahon realized that Hart was a prima dona and was keeping the company down by refusing to drop the belt. He sucked as the type of heel he was and was demanding prime time matches while not delivering in the ratings. McMahon's hands were tied because Hart was an enigma to many fans and respected,but wasn't making the company money like he had previously done in years past.
HBK was more willing to change with the times(DX and Attitude,teaming with the unknown HHH and turning him into a superstar by assocation) and was being more flexible with what McMahon wanted to do for the future. The result is that HBK is still with the company today and a bigger legend than Hart I hate to say,
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As far as carrying PPVs when WCW took off... they didn't truly take off until 1996 with the nWo's formation, during which time Bret was on a hiatus and not even actively competing. Your weak main events came in the form of Diesel v. whoever while he was champ (save Survivor Series 1995), and HBK as champ v. whoever. As I recall, they never had Bret drop the belt because he wasn't drawing, but they did for Nash and HBK. |
Diesel had no depth to his character tll he went to the WCW as Kevin Nash. "Diesel" couldnt carry the company and McMahon started to tinker around with different champs until he realized he needed to basically redo the face of the company. Hart was given his fair shot and didn't deliver like McMahon wanted. HBK and then eventually Stone Cold and the Rock would do much more the for the growth of the company than the stagnant Hart character.
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His gimmick didn't "die out", either... the entire point of the Hitman was that he represented tradition and what was right in the wrestling business. He maybe takes it a little too serious as far as actually living that persona goes, but it's an extension of who he really is, which is what makes gimmicks click and work. |
Yes, his gimmick did die out because he didn't want to develope it further past what it had always been. He would be fine being the "Excellence of Execution" doing the same old shit for 20 more years if somebody would let him. Hogan started to get that way in 91.
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Sting turning into the Crow and getting paid to hang out in the rafters and maybe DDT someone for 2 years and then magically turning into Red Crow and being all happy and shit |
I was tuned into the Monday Night Wars every Monday for a period of 3 years and Sting was probably the 3rd most popular character in WCW behind Hogan and Goldberg. Hart as Stings tag partner with both in the Crow makeup would have worked. Hart and Sting both had fans who loved them no matter and they both represented the good guys who had been fucked over in some ways because they were the 2nd gen heroes of wrestling fighting to stay alive.
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
Posts: 1443
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I was considering replying to all this, but then I saw
"Hart as Stings tag partner with both in the Crow makeup would have worked. "
And then I thought, never mind.
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uncle joe
Joined: Jul 15 2008
Location: Spanish Harlem
Posts: 280
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LOL^.
Also, even though Hart didn't draw for Vince, neither did HBK in all fairness. Sure he had some nice matches, but he wasn't drawing.
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Ermac
Title: Thread Killer
Joined: Aug 04 2008
Location: Outworld
Posts: 1512
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Bouya wrote: |
I was considering replying to all this, but then I saw
"Hart as Stings tag partner with both in the Crow makeup would have worked. "
And then I thought, never mind. |
What is your reasoning for it not working?
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