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Posted: Aug 11 2012 02:51 am

DE LURK!

Jumping back in after YEARS, haven't played since Alpha/Beta days and I'm a tad confused about banned/restricted cards, and stuff, so hear me out.

I assume banned means I cannot play it in official tournements, but I can scrape by playing a banned card in a casual game?

Or does it being banned mean it's super uncool to even have aformentioned cards in a deck, like how does the community at large feel about this in casual games?

Assuming they're OK for casual games, is it uncool to not announce them beforehand, like would it be a perceived as a "oh hey cool haven't seen that in ages!" moment (the effect I'm going for), or would it be a "WTF!? GET OUT OF HERE YOU JERK" moment? (most definately not what I'm going for)... Confused

One final question, I've found some cards called unhinged which I assume aren't legal for tournement, but are these cool to slip in to a deck for casual games sight unseen or should I tell everyone first? I don't really want to play a whole unhinged deck VS unhinged deck game, I think it would be more fun to sprinkle a few in to a normal deck as a surprise.

Seems like warning everyone might ruin the surprise, but I don't want to break any major taboos and be captain unpopular.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 11 2012 03:00 am

It really depends. Most cards are banned because they're incredibly broken in some context, or all contexts. Some are banned because they're wacky or create time issues but for the most part, if you use a banned card in a game, expect to be yelled at. So absolutely, yes, tell people if you're planning on using banned cards.

Usually when people play "casual" they mean "non-competitive legacy", so use the Legacy ban list as a good starting point as to what to not use.

Silver-bordered cards are not tournament legal, and not everyone loves them, so always double-check with people to make sure they're okay first. But if your group is cool with them, do slip a few in. Very Happy

Posted: Aug 11 2012 08:14 am

UsaSatsui wrote:

Usually when people play "casual" they mean "non-competitive Vintage", so use the Vintage banned/restricted list as a good starting point as to what to not use.

Fixed. If you're using the Legacy construction rules, you're doing it wrong.

The Vintage banned list is simple. The only things that are banned are ante cards (because no one plays for ante), the two flip cards (Chaos Orb and Falling Star), and Shahrazad.

The Vintage restricted list has a couple of things like Ponder and Brainstorm that aren't regulated in Legacy, but overall it is smaller and less restrictive than Legacy banned list. And that's more fun. Also there are certain highly popular restricted Vintage cards (e.g. Wheel of Fortune, Demonic Tutor, Sol Ring) that are very easy to come by and that everyone wants to play with. But they're outright banned in Legacy.

The idea is this: Vintage has the smallest and most intuitive banned/restricted list, which should allow for the most creativity and fun. It also gives newer players who may not even be aware of deck construction rules the greatest chance of not building an illegal deck.

The spirit of casual is this: You either don't have the time, money, or patience to play competitive Legacy or Vintage, but you enjoy collecting cards. And maybe every so often you get your hands on something really special, whether it be a Library of Alexandria or a beat to shit Black Lotus. Well, you can play those cards. And anyone who says otherwise is a giant fucking crybaby.

Silver bordered cards are generally banned. The only one I have even seen allowed with any regularity is Strategy Schmategy. It's all about knowing your play group though. At various times, I got away with playing Big Furry Monster, Censorship, Goblin Bookie, and Giant Fan, while Jeebus used to play Super Secret Tech all the time.

Also, EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander, sometimes called Commander) is the most popular casual format right now and has its own banned list. The EDH Banned List, as of June 2012, is:

Ancestral Recall
Balance
Biorhythm
Black Lotus
Coalition Victory
Channel
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Fastbond
Gifts Ungiven
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Karakas
Library of Alexandria
Limited Resources
Metalworker
Sundering Titan
Mox Sapphire, Ruby, Pearl, Emerald and Jet
Painter's Servant
Panoptic Mirror
Protean Hulk
Recurring Nightmare
Staff of Domination
Sway of the Stars
Time Vault
Time Walk
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Upheaval
Griselbrand
Yawgmoth's Bargain

Worldfire is expected to added soon. The fact that Primeval Titan is not banned in EDH is considered somewhat of an upset.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 11 2012 10:30 am

I'll agree on Wheel of Fortune, but in general, if you join a "casual" play group and you pull out a deck with a couple moxes, a Strip Mine, and a Library, you're going to be asked to leave it.

It really doesn't matter, since a new player isn't going to have access to anything on either banned or restricted list (except those totally fair 1 mana blue spells). Again, always ask someone in your playgroup.

Posted: Aug 11 2012 10:42 am

No one's going to cry over a restricted Strip Mine, especially when there are so many abusable lands. When you strip mine someone's Cradle, Ith, or Tomb of Yawgmoth, everyone else is going to applaud.

Strip Mine is also like a $2 card, for the white border version.

If you have one or two Power Ten cards, no one's going to give you a hard time. If you're running ALL of them... well, you're a jerk. But the general idea is that if a casual player has some really expensive Vintage Restricted card, they probably worked really hard to get it.

Posted: Aug 11 2012 10:43 am

UsaSatsui wrote:

It really doesn't matter, since a new player isn't going to have access to anything on either banned or restricted list (except those totally fair 1 mana blue spells). Again, always ask someone in your playgroup.

The Legacy banned list has tons of stuff that are bulk rares. Hermit Druid and Worldgorger, for example.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 11 2012 11:54 am

It's because nobody uses Hermit Druid and Worldgorger Dragon unless they're using it for something degenerate. If you're not breaking the game with them, the cards suck.

And again, doesn't it seem to tie into "ask your group"? We seem to have very different ideas of what casual play is like (yours involves some sort of multiplayer), so his group will as well.

Posted: Aug 11 2012 06:40 pm

If you're not playing casual multiplayer or play testing competive single player decks, you don't have a play group. You have people you know who happen to play Magic.

Posted: Aug 11 2012 07:01 pm

Bummer, Chaos Orb was one I wanted to use. I suppose I'll ask them, but that ruins the surprise. (I've got random Alpha Beta stuff left over, but nothing near enough to build a classic deck around, and nothing expensive that I know of (no Lotus or Mox's or Ancestral Recall sadly), and I wanted to see if I could still use em.

I guess I'll find some other funky beta card to use.

When it comes to silver bordered, Cheatyface is generally frowned upon as a jerk move isn't it? That's the one I really want to slip in the deck for giggles, since I'm running mono green and it costs blue, but you really don't need mana to cast it according to the silly rules on it.

Can I post my deck here and see what you guys think?

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Aug 12 2012 12:19 am

Chaos Orb is one of those cards that's banned because it's silly, and it's really hard to imagine a playgroup that won't allow it. A Beta Orb is worth about 140 bucks, though, so you may wanna be careful with it.

Cheatyface is fun, but people tend to play it "wrong"...you can only sneak it into play from your hand. You can't slide one under another card in the sleeve and pull it out, you can't drop a binder of Cheatyfaces down when your opponent isn't looking, you can't drop it out of your library into play, you need to drop it out of your hand. There's actually official rulings on it if people wanna get uppity.

Posted: Aug 12 2012 06:05 pm

UsaSatsui wrote:

Cheatyface is fun, but people tend to play it "wrong"...you can only sneak it into play from your hand. You can't slide one under another card in the sleeve and pull it out, you can't drop a binder of Cheatyfaces down when your opponent isn't looking, you can't drop it out of your library into play, you need to drop it out of your hand. There's actually official rulings on it if people wanna get uppity.

What the hell? Yeah that's kind of obvious, I assumed that was the only way to use it, can you imagine, people with the gall to cheat using cheatyface?